Discussion Thread - Star Players

Philippe27 · Guru

RE: Discussion Thread - Star Players

Sabres · Guru

If you want a system implimented for time on ice compared to pts scored, then figure out a way to have that shown statistically and a way to adjust OF ratings effectively. I dont see why you are shooting down a legit theory? Why not be open to it and wait til I produce an actual ratio and see if you agree? I really do think you are just afraid of change or something, there honestly are people that are just geared that way in their brain. Maybe you are.

Philippe27 · Guru

Sabres wrote:

If you want a system implimented for time on ice compared to pts scored, then figure out a way to have that shown statistically and a way to adjust OF ratings effectively. I dont see why you are shooting down a legit theory? Why not be open to it and wait til I produce an actual ratio and see if you agree? I really do think you are just afraid of change or something, there honestly are people that are just geared that way in their brain. Maybe you are.

I'm not, I made the strangest ratings in the FHL community because they are different. My point's just that we weren't aware of it when we drafted or started trading and it is too big of a change to just throw in like that.

VanIslander · Guru

Philippe27 wrote:

My point's just that we weren't aware of it when we drafted or started trading and it is too big of a change to just throw in like that.

Exactly.

Sabres · Guru

You guys are such extremists. Give me a break we didnt draft "knowing this" thats complete BS if you ask me. You think that the rules we had at the start of this league are the ones that will be here forever? Dont be naive.

Also its not a big change at all, it would adjust the SC or PA or PC ratings as much as 1 pt. I dont think thats a big change and especially since it'd only be to a few players every year.

We know your opinion lets wait for others.

Philippe27 · Guru

Also its not a big change at all, it would adjust the SC or PA or PC ratings as much as 1 pt. I dont think thats a big change and especially since it'd only be to a few players every year.

If it's such a small change why even bother? It's work for nothing and makes everything more complicated.
And the rules we started with like the ratings and Free Agency better stay similar to what we started out with or at least have a 1 year warning cuz there'll be some frustrated GM's.

CBJackets · Guru

I don't feel like writing out any kind of long response but what Buffalo is suggesting definitely makes the ratings more subjective. Because you have to decide what kind of weight you're going to give "how good that player's team" is/ Points per minute is also a horrible way of doing things. Some players get minimal even strength time and then a lot of powerplay time etc. etc.

The intent is good I guess but it's just not practical and makes things more subjective.

You also can't really argue that playing on a bad team makes a player put up less points. Look at Kopitar for example, if he wasn't on such a crappy team he wouldn't be getting so much ice time. If he was playing Radulov's minutes he wouldn't put up near the amount of points he's putting up.

So where do you set the mark. Like I said I think we have very good ratings, the worst thing would be to do anything drastic, all we may need are a few tweaks here and there.

Sabres · Guru

Question:

How the hell is it subjective when its statistically based? I dont even know if you guys understand the meaning of that. The ratio would have a very fine line of what gets an adjustment and what doesnt. How is that subjective? Is us adding a certain "weight" in ratings for every goal a player scores not objective by your definition then? Its the exact same thing, we have a formula there that has been tested. Obviously this would have to go through the same vigor to make it not subjective.

CBJackets · Guru

Sabres wrote:

Question:

How the hell is it subjective when its statistically based? I dont even know if you guys understand the meaning of that. The ratio would have a very fine line of what gets an adjustment and what doesnt. How is that subjective? Is us adding a certain "weight" in ratings for every goal a player scores not objective by your definition then? Its the exact same thing, we have a formula there that has been tested. Obviously this would have to go through the same vigor to make it not subjective.

Uh of course that's subjective, but if we didn't do that then we wouldn't have any ratings and we wouldn't have a league. You get this amount of points - you get this rating...doesn't matter what team you play for, how many goals your team scored, whether your coach benches your ass. THAT is the most objective way to do things. What I bolded is exactly what makes your suggestion subjective. Just because something is stats based doesn't make it entirely objective.

Sabres · Guru

Whatever... I think its actually retarded that the same two GMs keep posting and no one else does.

CBJackets · Guru

Furthermore, if there are going to be any significant or even modest changes to the ratings system I think we should have at least a season's notice, ie implement the changes for season 3. I know myself and a lot of other GMs have been closely following for example SH ice time as a guide to defenseman and forward value for next season.

HOTLANTA · Guru

the flames have been a defensive minded team since sutter took over and i think thats when iggy won the rocket.. even if not say iginla leads the league in goals this season should he have the highest scoring rating yes but should it be increased even more because the flamers have AHLers on the 3rd and 4th lines?? i dont think so.. also last season when phaneuf was 2nd in defensemen in goals with 20 should he have had a higher sc than the leader of defensive goals because he played in a defensive calgary team it doesntt make sense to me how this is even a honest opinion stats are stats cant make up a ratio because the team plays defensively because they dont have the talent to run and gun... if the flames had, tanguay, iginla, corsby ovechkin staal they wouldnt be a defensive minded team at all they run and gun but simply because they dont have the offensive depth as other teams they play to their strength which is defense how can u reward someone with offensive stats if they dont actually produce them??

VanIslander · Guru

CBJackets wrote:

Furthermore, if there are going to be any significant or even modest changes to the ratings system I think we should have at least a season's notice, ie implement the changes for season 3. I know myself and a lot of other GMs have been closely following for example SH ice time as a guide to defenseman and forward value for next season.

Yes, I have traded away awesome players in an attempt to get good NHLer performers now to re-rate well.

Talking now about changes for season 3 is... wise.

Habs · Senior Member

I haven't read most of this tread, but basically I think we should stick with the formula we have now for ratings. I think it has worked extremely well this season and for the most part is realistic.