Discussion Thread - Star Players

BryceBruins · BRHL2 Co-Commish

Discussion Thread - Star Players

Philippe27 · Guru

Personally in my ratings I had 35 or so including goalies. I think it's a hard issue because the superstars which are players people pay to go see play are not the ones that get high overalls. Stats like IT and ST boost overall but more than SP and SK but people pay to see fast players not big ones. I think maybe 25 players plus 8 goalies is a good number, you just have to make sure there are enough so that skilled guys even if they are smaller like Crosby are 80+.

VanIslander · Guru

30 skaters.

6-8 goalies.

Regardless of teams on, every team ON AVERAGE, should be able to have a superstar forward or d-man.

BryceBruins · BRHL2 Co-Commish

Philippe27 wrote:

Stats like IT and ST boost overall but more than SP and SK but people pay to see fast players not big ones.

That's true for defensemen, but generally not for forwards. Thats why the only 80+ dmen are Pronger & Chara, while Niedermayer and Lidstrom fell just short at 79ov. Although with the slider adjustment they should be up to 80.

Are their really 25 players (not goalies) that you would pay money to go see? I really don't think there is.

Philippe27 · Guru

BryceBruins wrote:

Philippe27 wrote:

Stats like IT and ST boost overall but more than SP and SK but people pay to see fast players not big ones.

That's true for defensemen, but generally not for forwards. Thats why the only 80+ dmen are Pronger & Chara, while Niedermayer and Lidstrom fell just short at 79ov. Although with the slider adjustment they should be up to 80.

Are their really 25 players (not goalies) that you would pay money to go see? I really don't think there is.

I think there are, depends on the market of course but I mean on average like Islanders said there is 1 guy per team that people pay to go see play.

Hawks_G · Guru

BryceBruins wrote:

Philippe27 wrote:

Stats like IT and ST boost overall but more than SP and SK but people pay to see fast players not big ones.

That's true for defensemen, but generally not for forwards. Thats why the only 80+ dmen are Pronger & Chara, while Niedermayer and Lidstrom fell just short at 79ov. Although with the slider adjustment they should be up to 80.

Are their really 25 players (not goalies) that you would pay money to go see? I really don't think there is.

Players I would pay to see...

Thornton
Crosby
Ovechkin
Staal
Jagr
Forsberg
Gaborik
Lecavalier
Richards
Iginla
Sakic
Spezza
Heatley
Hossa
Havlat
Kovalchuk
Pronger
Chara
Niedermayer
Lidstrom
Kiprussoff
Brodeur
Turco
Hasek
Luongo

And there are others that are close...but these are the definitive ones...

CBJackets · Guru

One thing that I wuold like changed for next season in relation to this is goalie ratings. IMO they need to be more spread out. Judging from preliminary results it doesn't really matter if you have a top goalie. There are also far too many medium range - good starters. Pretty much everyone has a decent goalie.

Pittsburgh GM · Senior Member

Thought I would throw my two cents in. I went through the nhl.com team lists and came up with IMO who is either first or second tier superstars.

First tier is already a superstar

Martin Brodeur, Zdeno Chara, Sidney Crosby, Dominek Hasek, Marian Hossa, Jaromir Jagr, Tomas Kaberle, Ilya Kovolchuk, Mario Lemieux, Nicklas Lidstrom, Scott Niedermeyer, Alexander Ovechkin, Chris Pronger, Eric Staal.

Second Tier is either a superstar on his downside of his career, a not quite the best superstar such as Sundin, or a superstar in the making.

Daniel Briere, Jay Bouwmeester, Pavel Datsyuk, Patrik Elias, Peter Foresberg, Marian Gaborik, Martin Havlat, Jarome Iginla, Ed Jovanovski, Anze Kopitar, Kari Lehtonen, Roberto Luongo, Evegeni Malkin, Dion Phaneuf, Joe Sakic, Teemu Selanne, Jason Spezza, Mats Sundin, Joe Thornton, Wojtek Wolski, Nicolai Zherdev.

Of course there are others who need to prove themselves to get to this level such as Jordan Staal and some I never included cause I feel they have always been terribly overated such as Kipprosoff and Lecavalier.

I come up with 4 Goalies, 8 defencemen and 23 forwards = 35 in 30 teams not to bad

Philippe27 · Guru

Sry but Lemieux is retired.

CBJackets · Guru

Pittsburgh GM wrote:

Second Tier is either a superstar on his downside of his career, a not quite the best superstar such as Sundin, or a superstar in the making.

Daniel Briere, Jay Bouwmeester, Pavel Datsyuk, Patrik Elias, Peter Foresberg, Marian Gaborik, Martin Havlat, Jarome Iginla, Ed Jovanovski, Anze Kopitar, Kari Lehtonen, Roberto Luongo, Evegeni Malkin, Dion Phaneuf, Joe Sakic, Teemu Selanne, Jason Spezza, Mats Sundin, Joe Thornton, Wojtek Wolski, Nicolai Zherdev.

Of course there are others who need to prove themselves to get to this level such as Jordan Staal and some I never included cause I feel they have always been terribly overated such as Kipprosoff and Lecavalier.

And Lemieux is retired...

Pittsburgh GM · Senior Member

Was not sure if that was official or not

CBJackets · Guru

Pittsburgh GM wrote:

Was not sure if that was official or not

Check your PMs/Email I sent you some trade inquiries

VanIslander · Guru

Pittsburgh GM wrote:

Thought I would throw my two cents in. I went through the nhl.com team lists and came up with IMO who is either first or second tier superstars.

First tier is already a superstar

Martin Brodeur, Zdeno Chara, Sidney Crosby, Dominek Hasek, Marian Hossa, Jaromir Jagr, Tomas Kaberle, Ilya Kovolchuk, Mario Lemieux, Nicklas Lidstrom, Scott Niedermeyer, Alexander Ovechkin, Chris Pronger, Eric Staal.

Second Tier is either a superstar on his downside of his career, a not quite the best superstar such as Sundin, or a superstar in the making.

Daniel Briere, Jay Bouwmeester, Pavel Datsyuk, Patrik Elias, Peter Forsberg, Marian Gaborik, Martin Havlat, Jarome Iginla, Ed Jovanovski, Anze Kopitar, Kari Lehtonen, Roberto Luongo, Evegeni Malkin, Dion Phaneuf, Joe Sakic, Teemu Selanne, Jason Spezza, Mats Sundin, Joe Thornton, Wojtek Wolski, Nicolai Zherdev.

Of course there are others who need to prove themselves to get to this level such as Jordan Staal and some I never included cause I feel they have always been terribly overated such as Kipprosoff and Lecavalier.

I come up with 4 Goalies, 8 defencemen and 23 forwards = 35 in 30 teams not to bad

Pre-judging who should have the highest rating overall based on one's perceptions is flawed.

You are a Leafs fan so putting Kaberle on the superstar list isn't surprising, but he sticks out like a sore thumb. Who would pay to see him outside of Ontario? Sundin, Forsberg, Malkin yeah! ... Where the heck is Brind'amour? but that's my opnion, another opinion, which shouldn't be used, none should.

Ratings should be set based on how players are doing in the NHL THIS year!! That means a guy like Shanahan (not on either of your lists either) gets the offensive (SC, PA, PC) ratings he deserves based on statistics, which would put him at or near the top given his size, just as St. Louis (also a guy not on either of your lists) would have a very high OV because not only is he Top-10 in NHL goal scoring but he has speed and intensity (hits) and plays defense, which would put his OV among the very best.

So let's NOT try to prejudge who should get the highest ratings, but instead figure out HOW MANY players should be 80+ ov and tweak the formula or procedure of rating the rating categories accordingly.

devils · Veteran Member

It has already been mentioned but I wanted to reiterate that we need to take a closer look at the range of rates for goaltenders in general. With that being said, I think there is a disproportionate number of goaltenders at 80+. If those rates are reserved for star players, I have a hard time looking at last year's numbers and calling Legace, Lundqvist, or Turco stars. I see the Lidstroms and Niedermayers of the league as being far more worthy. I am not sure if 8 is really ther magic number we want to aim for, that might be about the max.

VanIslander · Guru

Pittsburgh GM wrote:

I come up with 4 Goalies, 8 defencemen and 23 forwards = 35 in 30 teams not to bad

I like the ratio!

I agree that goaltenders presently are rated a bit high RELATIVE to other positions. But instead of lowing the rating formula for keepers, perhaps just jack up the rating formulas for skaters.