Just over three weeks after Pascal Leclaire was supposed to be on his way out of Anaheim to a city that won't be mentioned, Mr. Leclaire remains a Duck. Following several days of back and forth offers between Anaheim and the team that won't be named, the Ducks received an offer they deemed acceptable. They confirmed their acceptance of the offer and sent it in... The other GM, however, apparently got cold feet and pulled out of the deal by not confirming the trade.
In the three years I spent in law school, one of the first things learned was that OFFER + ACCEPTANCE = CONTRACT... Sure you can add conditions to your offer like when it will lapse, but that never occured here... The league, however, requires that a further step be taken for a trade to be finalized - that being "ratification or confirmation of the trade by the two parties".
And that is fair, but if GMs in this league don't want their reputations sullied and have their fellow GMs back-off from trading with them, I would suggest that GMs show a little good faith and honesty in their dealings.
This is the second time this has happened to me this season and my patience is beginning to wear thin... Very thin... We have a three strike rule for poor conduct - and I have my own three strike rule for leaving this league and this makes it two...
All that to say that Leclaire is still available to a contending or rebuilding team. Despite his numbers and Mason's emergence as the starter in Columbus, Leclaire's value is still high in my books. He's still only 24 years old and I fully expect that he will bounce back from this season. In return for the 80OV goaltender, I am looking for a top-prospect or top 8 draft choice.
-- Edited by Anaheim GM at 13:51, 2009-01-08
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2007-08 - missed playoffs (29th overall) 2008-09 - missed playoffs (26th overall) 2009-10 - 7th place in Western Conference (99 pts), Conference Semi-Finals 2010-11 - missed playoffs (19th overall) 2011-12
Not knowing exactly how things went down, but if I send an email offer to a guy and it takes a day or two to get an answer, the player could be dealt before an acceptance comes.
There is a big difference between that and two guys on ICQ agreeing to a deal and then one guy not confirming the deal via email.
"Deal?" "Yep, deal." "OK, send it in."
and
An email offer of..."X and Y for Z", and the response going "Sure, I will do that....I am sending, confirm please." being 12 or 24 hours later isn't the same since a lot can happen between that offer and an acceptance.
As far as law school goes, if I wanted a ping pong table, and emailed a guy on Kijiji.ca who had a ping pong table for sale for a hundred bucks, and I emailed him and say "Would you take $75.00 for it?" And the next ad had one for $100, and I offered $75 and he called back first and closed the deal....does that first offer classify as a legal contract?
If you e-mailed the guy and said "would you take $75 for it?" that likely wouldn't constitute an offer...
If you had said "I will give you $75 for it" and he got back to you in a reasonable time and accepted your offer you would be on the hook. That doesn't mean you have to go through with it... He would be under an obligation to mitigate his losses by trying to sell it to someone else... Suppose he was only able to get $50 for it after trying for a week. In theory he could sue you for the $25. Obviously the chances of someone spending the time and money to go after the $25 is slim to none.
Alternatively, if he replied to you and said "I'll take $75, but you have to pick it up" - his reply would constitute a new offer and your original offer would be null... You'd have the choice to either accept the offer, reject it, or make a new counter-offer (which would kill his offer).
And one more thing... Suppose you offered $75 for the ping pong table and meanwhile you found another one. You can revoke your offer by communicating the revocation to the person you made the offer to (or you could have attached a condition to the offer saying it was open until X day at Y o'clock...)
Which brings me to an e-mail offer in the BRHL!
If a GM makes an offer to another GM in circumstances in which they have been in ongoing negotiations, if the offeror hasn't received an acceptance, reject or counter-offer and they are thinking that the deal is not what they want to do (maybe you found a better deal elsewhere), the gentlemanly thing to do would be to revoke the offer...
-- Edited by Anaheim GM at 21:11, 2009-01-08
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2007-08 - missed playoffs (29th overall) 2008-09 - missed playoffs (26th overall) 2009-10 - 7th place in Western Conference (99 pts), Conference Semi-Finals 2010-11 - missed playoffs (19th overall) 2011-12
and then change my mind for whatever reason, I will e-mail to revoke the offer.
However, generally I will attach a note to my offers so that they look something like this:
X + Y for Z however, I am pursuing a number of options so this is just to get your thoughts
THis way I am honest, and no one is gonna feel like they got screwed over.
Now in the case that ANA is talking about, I am sure we've all been through this. It happens in EVERY league, it certainly is not a reason to leave a league as the next league you join will be just as likely to have it happen. I think every league I've been in has the rule that confirmation of a deal isn't done till both sides e-mail it in. That rule opens the door for these problems, but because the only way the league can monitor negotiations is via the trade confirmation e-mails, there really is no other way to do it.
Well, in my opinion, thousands of offers get thrown out a year. The closing of a deal usually ends with Deal? Deal.
If someone emailed me an offer, and I got back to them a day later saying sure.....and they emailed back and said, sorry, something came up in the meantime....(It can be as simple as another offer within the 24 hours, or say another player got hurt in the meantime.)
Anything can happen. To me, if two guys are on ICQ and both say deal and agree to send it in and one does not, that is a reason to get irrate. This situation is a pretty normal situation that can occur. Not a fun or happy situation mind you, but not one that I would lose my mind over.
Like the majority of other GMs in this league, I have better things to do in my spare time than going back and forth for a week on a potential deal, finaling getting a counter-offer that is acceptable, only to have the other guy then decide to back out... If we coudn't arrive at a an agreement, fine, that's life. But don't waste people's time negotiating if you don't have the intention to act in good faith.
If I'm in a negotiation with you and I make you an offer, if I later decide I want to revoke my offer, you'll get an e-mail or PM from me telling you so.
It's about respect. Plain and simple. And with that, I think this thread should be closed as the league made its decision and I'm fine with it.
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2007-08 - missed playoffs (29th overall) 2008-09 - missed playoffs (26th overall) 2009-10 - 7th place in Western Conference (99 pts), Conference Semi-Finals 2010-11 - missed playoffs (19th overall) 2011-12
In any FHL league I have ever participated there is an unwritten code.
1. You always reply to a trade offer no matter how stupid the offer is. A simple 'no' will do.
2. If you send in an offer to a fellow GM be prepared that he might actually accept it, if he does, the honourable thing to do is to accept it.
However, I have had inexperienced GM's renag on offers too. George I believe is correct when both parties agree it is a deal then it is a deal. People can make mistakes in initial offers, or have cold feet and renag on their offer. Thou it is frowned upon and ruins your rep, I don't believe it is illegal.
The best way to stop this is don't deal with that particular GM.
