Although it's more me hoping the NHL will rather than probable logic, but i would like to see teams relocate....
I still remember one reason the NHL wouldn't go back to winnipeg because their arena holds justs over 16 thousand, yet they fail to realize that those seats would always sell-out there... rather than having 12-14,000 show up for nashville, phoenix and atlanta games... hell, i still remember watching canucks vs dallas or new jersey and thinking that no one was there...
i would hope bettman finally lets basaille move a team to hamilton, move the coyotes back to winnipeg and move a team to quebec city.... 6 canadian teams accounted for a third of the revenue last year, if you want the nhl to succeed, move teams back to canada....
simply put, 30 is a good number for the league.. 24 would be perfect, but honestly, theres no way 6 teams will be contracted...
nashville, florida, phoenix, atlanta lead the way, with possible places like carolina, buffalo, new jersey, columbus as only other potential candidates for contraction/relocation.
Only real places I see as good places to send an NHL franchise are: toronto/kitchener, winnipeg, kansas city, seattle
kansas city has a ready-made facility for a winter-schedule sport (NBA or NHL)
toronto/kitchener would immediately be a top 10 or top 5 team in terms of franchise value, but would significantly hurt the buffalo market IMO...
seattle is a big opportunity for the NHL to jump on IMO for the next 5 years... Getting some preseason or even some Canucks regular season games in Key Arena... think about how big a market that city has, no winter-schedule sport now, and have been spurned by an owner that said the stadium was useless... that stadium is better than what we have here in Edmonton, and ive seen some other NHL stadiums that arent as good as the Key is...
winnipeg has a fairly new stadium as well I believe..
you need to have a ready-made NHL building and no winter-market sports to even qualify for NHL relocation or expansion IMO, except for of course the Kitchener play.
what does everyone else think??
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i know there has been talk about a team in las vegas which would just be useless in my opinion, you want a loyal fan base, so don't turn a city (which is primarily used as a tourist attracting) into a hockey city... they won't get any merchandise selling at all because no one really sticks around in that city for any length of time....
as for seattle, don't they have trouble keeping teams there? the sonics, even the mariners suck, i just don't seeing a franchise last in seattle... mind you i am biased, i think that the NHL should that no matter what, original 6 teams should never relocate or fold and smaller canadian cities like halifax should get a team over american cities like nashville and columbus...
Coming from a guy who almost watched his team relocate 5 years ago, I really don't want to see any teams move unless there is absolutly no way the team can continue in it's current city.
I think you are wrong about Vegas, Garreth. Vegas has a population in the millions on top of the tourists, most of them have relocated there from colder climates. When I was there in April, I got stopped by former Pittsburghers everywhere I went because every article of clothing I own has a penguins logo on it.
The team itself might not have a stong following, but there will be enough transplanted people and people on vacation who will go to follow their own teams. A lot of fans make vacation plans to go see their team on the road, why wouldn't they go to the biggest tourist spot in the country to do so?
There will be some tough competition from the shows on the strip, but without any other major sports team there, I think the team will prosper.
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"Theres also talk of creating more room at the end of the rink by making the nets more shallow, which would be accomplished by encouraging them to spend all their time listening to pop music and reading Twilight books."
i disagree about vegas... especially because the NBA is already making inroads there.,.
how would bettman go to the very conservitive bunch of NHL decision makers and say "Hey, I know we were gonna bring every franchise value in our sport up around 5% by selling off one of our worst NHL cities team in Nashville to Balsille for $300+ mil and getting that team put in a hockey-mad environment in Ontario, but Id rather take a huge chance in Vegas!"
Just wouldnt happen.
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Vegas has over 4 times the population as Hamilton, not including the hundreds of thousands of tourists there at any point of time.
Vegas wouldn't be a huge gamble (pun intended) If one out of every thousand residents bought a season ticket, they would fill up a 21,000 seat arena 41 times a year, not including the visitors, and not including the luxury boxes.
Who is to say that all of the people of Hamilton will support the new team? Im sure that if you were a hockey fan living in the area, you have been supporting the Sabres or the Leafs. Why wouldn't they keep supporting their team of choice, instead of an expansion team that will suck for the first 10 years of existence?
-- Edited by Ianintheam at 15:27, 2008-12-15
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"Theres also talk of creating more room at the end of the rink by making the nets more shallow, which would be accomplished by encouraging them to spend all their time listening to pop music and reading Twilight books."
phoenix has one of the largest populations in america, more than las vegas... columbus and nashville also have bigger populations than vegas as well... it's not a matter of how many people live there, but how many would buy tickets...
it's a safer bet to go with a hockey-mad smaller city like winnipeg, hamilton, halifax and quebec city than to go for a large population city who doesn't give a hoot about hockey....
It's not what I'd like to happen, but I do think that the league will find it in their best interest to cut down the league by 2-4 teams.
I think that teams who haven't done much in the sense of starting a hardcore fan base, in their first 10-20 years of existence, might prove best to relocate / contract. I hate watching games, and seeing empty seats in lower levels. It doesn't happen often for Canadian teams, and there are a handful of teams in the states who have strong attendance records. But the teams that have failed to grasp that hardcore fan base to go out and watch games on Wednesday nights, they worry me. A lot of this can be credited to the current state of the economy, but some these issues existed prior to the crunch.
I'm weary of Las Vegas. I think there are reasons that major sports have stayed away. I don't think a tourist atmosphere is the best for the NHL, but at the same time getting people into the seats at any cost isn't that bad. The potential to turn tourists into casual fans, by them in turn returning home to support their local teams could work. However, I don't like the NHL's current position to try and take that chance. I'd rather see the league play it safe and keep doing what their doing, instead of screwing something up.
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"As long as those gnome elite molecules emerge, we certainly can reduce casualties. Their warplanes troops would be nice."
However, I don't like the NHL's current position to try and take that chance. I'd rather see the league play it safe and keep doing what their doing, instead of screwing something up.
In the past 20 years, what has the league done that they haven't screwed up?
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"Theres also talk of creating more room at the end of the rink by making the nets more shallow, which would be accomplished by encouraging them to spend all their time listening to pop music and reading Twilight books."
I realize my analysis was too thorough for everyone causing everyone to withhold their comments...
seriously though, i dont see how anybody but these teams could be candidates for contraction/relocation: nashville, florida, phoenix, atlanta lead the way, with possible places like carolina, buffalo, new jersey, columbus.
In order: 1- Nashville (Shouldnt need any explanation.. i wish the oilers had as many playoff games as the predators have the last decade) 2- Atlanta (Hawks there for winter along with other 2 pro sports) 3- Florida (Ditto the Heat) 4- Phoenix (Ditto the Suns) 5- Carolina (Bad sales and always will be because of College basketball in winter months and NASCAR in spring) 6- New Jersey (****tiest state sports-wise in the nation? certainly by population!) 7- Columbus (bolstered by very strong sales after Buckeyes season) 8- Buffalo (only here because of threat with Kitchener or Hamilton)
Only real places I see as good places to send an NHL franchise are: toronto/kitchener, winnipeg, kansas city, seattle.
1- Kitchener (Best city in NHL for a team- you get the massive overflow from the toronto market, as well as the huge amounts of big-city money and ownership that it takes to be a top-5 or top-10 franchise- as well as getting the southern ontario crowd that has been filling buffalo's stadium) 2- Seattle (Huge opportunity with no Supersonics there to jump in on a much bigger city than Kansas City or Winnipeg.. big market money... and a fairly decent market for Hockey with WHL established for a while) 3- Winnipeg - (Quebec City?? try getting that past the huge power-players in the Montreal franchise... no the new stadium in Winnipeg and pure sentimental value has them on this list) 4- Kansas City (Brand new stadium with no tenants.. best bargaining chip for owners making a play for new arena and/or better deals with state/city ala Mario in Pitts)
Come on lets get some conversation going!!
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Get ahold of me soon, or my players will already be dealt!
I love how you shot down the Vegas Idea, then throw Kansas City and Seattle on your top 4 locations for a new franchise.
Those are some sure fire, hockey hot-beds
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"Theres also talk of creating more room at the end of the rink by making the nets more shallow, which would be accomplished by encouraging them to spend all their time listening to pop music and reading Twilight books."
I feel like a relocation is the most likely. The reason being is that there are some legitimate venues and some teams that really are struggling.
Not mentioning any names....and btw Ian, Kansas is oddly a decent hockey market. They have some strong hockey programs there including the Russell Stover program which I have scouted before. Some good kids there.
I realize my analysis was too thorough for everyone causing everyone to withhold their comments...
seriously though, i dont see how anybody but these teams could be candidates for contraction/relocation: nashville, florida, phoenix, atlanta lead the way, with possible places like carolina, buffalo, new jersey, columbus.
In order: 1- Nashville (Shouldnt need any explanation.. i wish the oilers had as many playoff games as the predators have the last decade) 2- Atlanta (Hawks there for winter along with other 2 pro sports) 3- Florida (Ditto the Heat) 4- Phoenix (Ditto the Suns) 5- Carolina (Bad sales and always will be because of College basketball in winter months and NASCAR in spring) 6- New Jersey (****tiest state sports-wise in the nation? certainly by population!) 7- Columbus (bolstered by very strong sales after Buckeyes season) 8- Buffalo (only here because of threat with Kitchener or Hamilton)
Only real places I see as good places to send an NHL franchise are: toronto/kitchener, winnipeg, kansas city, seattle.
1- Kitchener (Best city in NHL for a team- you get the massive overflow from the toronto market, as well as the huge amounts of big-city money and ownership that it takes to be a top-5 or top-10 franchise- as well as getting the southern ontario crowd that has been filling buffalo's stadium) 2- Seattle (Huge opportunity with no Supersonics there to jump in on a much bigger city than Kansas City or Winnipeg.. big market money... and a fairly decent market for Hockey with WHL established for a while) 3- Winnipeg - (Quebec City?? try getting that past the huge power-players in the Montreal franchise... no the new stadium in Winnipeg and pure sentimental value has them on this list) 4- Kansas City (Brand new stadium with no tenants.. best bargaining chip for owners making a play for new arena and/or better deals with state/city ala Mario in Pitts)
Come on lets get some conversation going!!
I would abstain from removing teams like BUF and NJ. I think NJ does alright, but it's NJ. They've pretty much had constant attendance numbers for the past few years. And they don't seem to be a team in financial trouble. I could be wrong, but that's just my perception.
Buffalo, I think is a pretty solid hockey market. I wouldn't want the Sabres to move at all. Even if there was talk of bringing another team closer to them.
Aside from the possible destinations you've already listed for future locations, there are a few others worth looking at.
I'd like another Canadian city or two to become viable options. A city that can regularly fill in 15,000-17,000 a night (which I think would be a NEED for any relocation possibility). I'm not that familiar with the Canadian geography to go against, or suggest additional market. But, I'd prefer Quebec, Winnipeg, Hamilton and Kitchener.
I think areas with strong NCAA Hockey followings would be good places to look in the U.S.. Problem is, that some of these locations aren't populated enough to warrant a major sports team. I think another Northeast team (Hartford should've never left - but it probably had to) would work. Maine, Vermont, Connecticut are good. I think there are a few decent places in the Mid-West. Minnesota could probably handle another team, too.
With all of this being said, I'd hope that the NHL can iron out their product and make it a little less hectic in their upper management before they entertain the thoughts of relocation.
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"As long as those gnome elite molecules emerge, we certainly can reduce casualties. Their warplanes troops would be nice."
