Another one

Sabres_Luke · Guru

RE: Another one

PhoenixGM · Guru

Just my two cents....

At first I completely agreed with George that these deals should be reversed and all teams should be notified of the reversals ASAP.

Now, after reading STL post I'm thinking that realistically neither the BoD nor the commishioner(s) have the right to reverse the trades. They were made before the former GM quit and they were never vetoed or put to a vote back then. The appropriate procedure for bad trades is that they get looked at before being processed and if they are bad enough they will get put to a vote by the BoD and perhaps voted down. I'm thinking that it is not acceptable to go back and look at these deals now, unfortunately, what is done is done.

Now, with that said, it would probably be in the best interest of the league as a whole to have these deals reversed, but I think the only way that could be done would be with the permission of all teams involved. Perhaps give these guys some compensation for allowing the deals to be reversed if they decide to agree to it.

So ultimately, while I would like to see the deals reversed, I think it should be up to the GM's involved to agree to this as I don't feel anyone has the right to forcibly reverse the trades.

Steve

Philippe27 · Guru

I think the trade review process has to be reviewed because that a trade like this was never voted on while in the off-season my trade with St.Louis was reversed about 4 days after it had been processed is a little inconsistent.
I'm not sure which is right and I don't care as long as there's some consistency which I'm not sure we have right now.

Hawks_G · Guru

Gareth,

Bear with me on this. This deal is about the good of the league. In the BOD process, they did review all the deals. Individually they weren't absolutely horrible enough to reverse. The issue here is the screw up of a team after the GM had mentally checked out.

When our deal was completed(the gift of Gonchar), the GM had just lost his best player and committed to a rebuild. By the time you had your gift deal, he was so messed that he had to take older players just to add salary to get over the floor.

The deals as a collective group are messed up, and all should get reversed with compensation to the GMs involved. As the team losing out the most, it is a "For the good of the league." which has to be the thing that is protected the most.

I think that a deal where a GM makes it in good conscience, and is a long term member of the league is one thing...but you and I and whoever else is a benefactor of a GM who didn't care....are you suggesting that allowing a GM to make deals when he has full intention of leaving the job is acceptable? We had that in two GMs in another league...and that is a mess.

-- Edited by Hawks_G at 23:38, 2007-12-05

Predsgm · Guru

as part of the bod.. nothing hasn't been decided on... but let me remind you all.... that on the day before he officially quit ... he did make a post saying he was willing to trade and NOT TRADE his young stars..

and i quote from his message " Vancouver looking to add Salary

Team need to add 10 mil to cap....taking all old ufa contracts....but dont expect guys like vlasic stafford or semin to move for them

.... and no more than 1 hour later he actually traded those guys.. so first we have to find his motive which was obviously not to the goodness of the league ... and B... why were those guys mentioned not available then traded no more than 1 hour afterwards... its a very hard process and as part of the bod.. not fully completed.. things where they stand right now. is as is..... there hasn't been any changes.. maybe there wont be... but we now must put rest all the chatter.. the ball is in the court of the commishes.. and we must respect their decision ...

Sabres_Luke · Guru

I agree with George. I'm willing to do what's best for the league. If Eric and Bryce decide that they want to reverse Vyborny for 1st and murphy i'd be okay with that if all of them were reversed.

Hawks_G · Guru

And the ONLY thing that from our team's standpoint that we are pretty adamant about is that our Schaefer Dumont deal has to be recinded as well. I made that deal JUST to get under the cap to fit Gonchar in.

Sabres_Luke · Guru

I don't know George, that's opening up a jumbo size can of worms...

Hawks_G · Guru

Sabres_Luke wrote:

I don't know George, that's opening up a jumbo size can of worms...

Actually not really. We actually made the deal with Vancouver saying that we can't send it in until we make another deal to get under the cap. We confirmed the Schaeffer/Dumont deal so we could confirm the Gonchar deal.

The Gonchar deal itself put us over the cap. We don't even consider the Dumont deal if we aren't going to trade for Gonchar.

It isn't possible for the league to enforce a recinding of deals for the Vancouver franchise, without looking at the moves made in conjunction with them.

We took a ratings and player hit moving from Dumont to Schaeffer to fit in Gonchar's salary. (Saved about a million dollars.) Our willingness to do what is best for the league is in conjuntion with not getting screwed because of it.

But I know Eric and Bryce will do what makes the most sense.

BluesGM · Guru

Eric_Isles wrote:

In regards to VAN losing Hasek to Salary Floor violations, the BOD has voted to replace Hasek back on the squad due to recent events.

i'm not trying to bring this back up again, but i was looking through the rules and the penalty for violating the salary floor is the suspension of the highest rated overall player for ten games and a fine.... but hasek was suspended for the season and would have become a ufa again.... just wondering if the rule was changed before the season began or what?

Pittsburgh GM · Senior Member

I am still pissed over he leagues decision to reverse the Schaeffer / Dumont deal, even though as far as i am concerned it had nothing to do with Vancouver. George must have done some fancy whining and threatening to quit or something to have this happen.
Let's not start on something I might quit about !
I am trying to forget about this leagues faux pas. ( for lack of nicer words ) furious

-- Edited by Pittsburgh GM at 07:24, 2008-01-17

-- Edited by Pittsburgh GM at 07:25, 2008-01-17

Hawks_G · Guru

Pittsburgh GM wrote:

I am still pissed over he leagues decision to reverse the Schaeffer / Dumont deal, even though as far as i am concerned it had nothing to do with Vancouver. George must have done some fancy whining and threatening to quit or something to have this happen.
Let's not start on something I might quit about !
I am trying to forget about this leagues faux pas. ( for lack of nicer words )

-- Edited by Pittsburgh GM at 07:24, 2008-01-17

-- Edited by Pittsburgh GM at 07:25, 2008-01-17

That is an interesting accusation that us "whining" or "threatening to quit" to have a trade reversed. You rememeber that it was OUR team that encouraged the league to reverse ALL of the Vancouver deals. We had the MOST to lose. But WE always cared about what was BEST for the league.

Our deal was made in conjunction with the Gonchar deal that we made. Our Gonchar deal was on hold until you and us consumated our deal which wouldn't have been a deal in any way if we didn't need to alleviate some cap room.

Sadly all of these explanations are lost on you, and sadly your continuous bringing up of something that was considered, and decided as a leaguewide benefit isn't of any benefit to you, me or the league in general.

A public loud complaint does nothing but scream towards the issues that the league had before rather than do what I do, and handle my league issues with those who manage the league.

Where does this take you? Do you want people to feel sorry for you? You think the court of public opinion that you have been someone slighted in some way will get the league to change a decision that happened a long time ago?

I could feel insulted, and take you to task and argue the finer points of all this, but because of the numerous times we have explained this, none of them have been understood or accepted by you. Just for the sake of it, I will try to do it one more time.

"Mike. We are agreed on the Gonchar deal. We have a pending deal for Dumont that we should be able to consumate that will get us to fit Gonchar in under the cap. We won't confirm our deal until that occurs. OK?"

"Rod, are you still interested in that Schaeffer Dumont deal? OK..done deal."

Our deal for Dumont and Schaeffer was a caveat to the Gonchar deal. The reversal of the Gonchar deal is connected to the caveat. I don't see why you can't understand or accept that.

Everyone who dealt with Vancouver took a hit. Us probably the most. We just wanted our team back to pre Vancouver dealings. But thanks for vilifying us. And trying to start a big argument....but I am not going to bite.

Well, even if you did want that, this isn't the forum to do that. Email Bryce and Eric.....they handle this sort of thing. And please, if you want to personal attack me or Dave...PM is better.

BluesGM · Guru

All I want to know is the change in rule for violating the salary floor.... I don't want to bring this stuff up again, can I just get an answer?

BryceBruins · BRHL2 Co-Commish

To give a response from head office so you *Gareth* know we aren't ignoring you.

I was largely on hiatus during this timeframe, and except in a consultary role, was not really involved (or even overly aware) of what was going on.

I will pow-wow with Eric and look into it for you.

Bryce

Pittsburgh GM · Senior Member

Hawks_G wrote:

Pittsburgh GM wrote:

I am still pissed over he leagues decision to reverse the Schaeffer / Dumont deal, even though as far as i am concerned it had nothing to do with Vancouver. George must have done some fancy whining and threatening to quit or something to have this happen.
Let's not start on something I might quit about !
I am trying to forget about this leagues faux pas. ( for lack of nicer words )

-- Edited by Pittsburgh GM at 07:24, 2008-01-17

-- Edited by Pittsburgh GM at 07:25, 2008-01-17

That is an interesting accusation that us "whining" or "threatening to quit" to have a trade reversed. You rememeber that it was OUR team that encouraged the league to reverse ALL of the Vancouver deals. We had the MOST to lose. But WE always cared about what was BEST for the league.

Our deal was made in conjunction with the Gonchar deal that we made. Our Gonchar deal was on hold until you and us consumated our deal which wouldn't have been a deal in any way if we didn't need to alleviate some cap room.

Sadly all of these explanations are lost on you, and sadly your continuous bringing up of something that was considered, and decided as a leaguewide benefit isn't of any benefit to you, me or the league in general.

A public loud complaint does nothing but scream towards the issues that the league had before rather than do what I do, and handle my league issues with those who manage the league.

Where does this take you? Do you want people to feel sorry for you? You think the court of public opinion that you have been someone slighted in some way will get the league to change a decision that happened a long time ago?

I could feel insulted, and take you to task and argue the finer points of all this, but because of the numerous times we have explained this, none of them have been understood or accepted by you. Just for the sake of it, I will try to do it one more time.

"Mike. We are agreed on the Gonchar deal. We have a pending deal for Dumont that we should be able to consumate that will get us to fit Gonchar in under the cap. We won't confirm our deal until that occurs. OK?"

"Rod, are you still interested in that Schaeffer Dumont deal? OK..done deal."

Our deal for Dumont and Schaeffer was a caveat to the Gonchar deal. The reversal of the Gonchar deal is connected to the caveat. I don't see why you can't understand or accept that.

Everyone who dealt with Vancouver took a hit. Us probably the most. We just wanted our team back to pre Vancouver dealings. But thanks for vilifying us. And trying to start a big argument....but I am not going to bite.

Well, even if you did want that, this isn't the forum to do that. Email Bryce and Eric.....they handle this sort of thing. And please, if you want to personal attack me or Dave...PM is better.

Geesh George ! That was just beautiful ! Next time I will just give you a personal call or maybe come knocking on your door so I can keep it a little more personalized for you.
George got everything he wanted, so therefore everyone should be happy.
Best for the league ? Get off of it.
As long as you were compensated for all the deals that appeared to you as a Vancouver related deal you are good eh ?
Unfortunately there were many who did other deals in here after the fact including myself that were directly involving all the Vancouver dealings but we never got the chance to have our deals looked at because as was stated to me at the time by you and I will paraphrase

" Eric knew I was making this deal with Vancouver to get under the cap, so I could get Gonchar. "

I don't have a prob with that, but because the rest of us could not verify our dealings for proper reasoning, others got screwed maybe myself more than others I do not know, but I did have at least 2 GMs who had this complaint come to me but neither is willing to speak up cause for them it was not major enough. However the deal with you was a major step forward for my club at the time. It led to me making a few other deals to try to make a playoff run which i was not far off the pace at the time. The reversal of the deal sent all deals off and sent my team in a complete reversal., leading to the demise of the Penguins and right into a rebuilding process.
This may have still happened ! But at least it would have been on my terms, and not on the IMO "BAD DECISION" by the league.

None of the deals should have ever been reversed period. League made that decision when they let them go thru, but since they were,

Only deals directly involving Vancouver should have been reversed.

This did not happen only in one case. YOURS !!

Explain to me why in a pay league even at only 50$ Why I shouldn't be pissed GEORGE !

Anyhow if you prefer this to stay personal and face to face you set the time and I will be more than happy to discuss it with you personally George !

You did whine about it George ! This is not an accusation. This is the truth.

I am done with this and do not wish to have to bring it up anymore either.

Hopefully ther league learned from all this and lets move on. bleh

-- Edited by Pittsburgh GM at 09:19, 2008-01-20