Best/Worst UFA deals

capsgm · Senior Member

RE: Best/Worst UFA deals

Islanders GM · Senior Member

This is not a complete list but the pre-UFA list I compiled to help g.m.s prepare for the bidding period. Posting the contracts gives a sense of relative worth THIS season, based on their ratings NOW, not on re-rate potential of course.

Ideal first liners:

68 Jaromir Jagr RW 10.5 mill VAN 2 yr
19 Joe Sakic  C   10.5 VAN 2 yr
13 Mats Sundin  C 8.6 mill TB 3 yr
82 Martin Straka  C/LW 12.9+ mill and counting (unsigned)
11 Mark Recchi  RW/LW   7.5 mill STL 1 yr

Ideal second liners:

20 Mike Sillinger          C/LW 10.3+ mill and counting
44 Jason Arnott            C 7.5 mill NYR 5 yr
32 Jozef Stumpel       RW/C 6.0 mill SJ 1 yr
39 Doug Weight        C 9.0 mill and counting

Second/third liners:

96 Tomas Holmstrom    LW 6.9 mill EDM 2 yr
31 Martin Rucinsky        LW 2.5 mill DET 2 yr
11 John Madden             C 5.0 mill TOR 2 yr
37 Michael Peca            C 2.0 mill DAL 2yr
33 Steve Rucchin           C 2.15 mill ANA 1 yr
23 Scott Walker           RW 4.2 mill CAL 3yr
61 Cory Stillman          LW 3.6 mill FLA 3 yr

Third/Fourth liners:

8 Geoff Sanderson       LW 2.4 mill NYI 2 yr
10 Dallas Drake           LW 2.25 mill CAR 2 yr
16 Chris Simon            LW 2.0 mill NYI 2 yr
26 Stephane Yelle          C 4.5 mill and counting
94 Yanic Perreault         C 2.3 mill NYI 2 yr
7 Derek Armstrong         C 1.9 mill EDM 3yr
41 Stu Barnes              C 1.4 mill DAL 2 yr
97 Jeremy Roenick        C 2.2 mill NYI 1 yr
77 Anson Carter           RW 2.0 mill NJ 3 yr
88 Eric Lindros           RW 2.0 mill PHO 1 yr
38 Dean McAmmond    C 1.9 mill EDM 1 yr
10 Peter Bondra           RW 1.0 mill FLO 1 yr
16 Trevor Linden          RW 1.375 mill OTT 2 yr
19 Scott Mellanby         RW 1.875 mill ANA 1 yr

Top pairing defensemen:

43 Philippe Boucher        D 12.0 mill and counting
5 Nicklas Lidstrom        D   13.0 mill SJ 1 yr
4 Rob Blake               D 5.4 mill BUF 1 yr
36 Roman Hamrlik           D 4.5 mill NYR 5 yr

#3/#4 second pairing d-men:

7 Karlis Skrastins        D 5.0 mill CLB 4 yr
5 Mattias Norstrom        D 8.2+ mill and counting
6 Bret Hedican            D 2.5 mill PHO 1 yr
8 Aaron Ward              D 3.5 mill CLB 3yr
3 Jaroslav Spacek         D 2.4 mill BOS 4 yr
71 Patrice Brisebois       D 2.7+ mill and counting
25 Ken Klee                D 3.9 mill and counting

#5/#6 third pairing dmen:

4 Glen Wesley             D 2.0 mill DAL 2 yr
3 Keith Carney            D 3.7+ mill and counting

Starting goaltenders:

39 Dominik Hasek           G 5.0 mill VAN 2 yr
35 Nikolai Khabibulin      G 7.25 mill MON 2 yr
30 Dwayne Roloson          G 5.0 mill PHI 2 yr

Tandem/Back-up netminders

26 Ed Belfour              G 2.0 mill PHO 1yr
8 Tim Thomas              G 2.5 mill NYR 4 yr
32 Curtis Joseph           G 3.3 mill and counting
31 Martin Gerber           G 5.5 mil and counting
30 Chris Osgood            G 1.4 mill DET 1yr

Note: the unsigned players are listed by average salary of bids whereas the signed players are listed by salary cap amounts. There is a difference there.

-- Edited by Islanders GM at 08:02, 2007-08-30

Islanders GM · Senior Member

Notice how the unsigned UFAs still remaining are asking for more than their relative equals: that's the result of a bidding war.

Knowing that, I decided to slightly overbid what I estimated the market would lead to, and did indeed go to, the 2-3 mill range for 3rd liners. I signed six UFAs quickly, due to my initial bid being the maximum what I'd pay. I wasn't looking for any deals in a draft in which I knew there would be heavy competition. Many probably scoffed at my opening bid, unaware that i wasn't going to get into a bidding war.

I signed 10 UFAs and am happy with almost all of them (the Kaberle signing notwithstanding).

The longer the period goes on, the higher the prices. That's just the way it always is.

I bet if someone made an initial bid on day one of 10 mill for Sillinger (6.67 mill + bonus) they would have signed him as the other g.m.s would've shifted to much lower earlier bids.

Just some thoughts.

PhoenixGM · Guru

This is the same thread as above, but I've accounted for maximum signing bonus for the remaining FA's. You see the salaries are pretty much still in line. If teams aren't offering the max SB then the salaries will be a little higher, but some guys might get loyalty, which will bring the salaries back down. Overall they are still on par with the rest of the signings I think. I wonder if they'll do as NYI predicted and continue to skyrocket.

Islanders GM wrote:

This is not a complete list but the pre-UFA list I compiled to help g.m.s prepare for the bidding period. Posting the contracts gives a sense of relative worth THIS season, based on their ratings NOW, not on re-rate potential of course.

Ideal first liners:

68 Jaromir Jagr RW 10.5 mill VAN 2 yr
19 Joe Sakic  C   10.5 VAN 2 yr
13 Mats Sundin  C 8.6 mill TB 3 yr
82 Martin Straka  C/LW 8.6+ mill and counting (unsigned)
11 Mark Recchi  RW/LW   7.5 mill STL 1 yr

Ideal second liners:

20 Mike Sillinger          C/LW 6.9+ mill and counting
44 Jason Arnott            C 7.5 mill NYR 5 yr
32 Jozef Stumpel       RW/C 6.0 mill SJ 1 yr
39 Doug Weight        C  6.0 mill and counting

Second/third liners:

96 Tomas Holmstrom    LW 6.9 mill EDM 2 yr
31 Martin Rucinsky        LW 2.5 mill DET 2 yr
11 John Madden             C 5.0 mill TOR 2 yr
37 Michael Peca            C 2.0 mill DAL 2yr
33 Steve Rucchin           C 2.15 mill ANA 1 yr
23 Scott Walker           RW 4.2 mill CAL 3yr
61 Cory Stillman          LW 3.6 mill FLA 3 yr

Third/Fourth liners:

8 Geoff Sanderson       LW 2.4 mill NYI 2 yr
10 Dallas Drake           LW 2.25 mill CAR 2 yr
16 Chris Simon            LW 2.0 mill NYI 2 yr
26 Stephane Yelle          C  3.0 mill and counting
94 Yanic Perreault         C 2.3 mill NYI 2 yr
7 Derek Armstrong         C 1.9 mill EDM 3yr
41 Stu Barnes              C 1.4 mill DAL 2 yr
97 Jeremy Roenick        C 2.2 mill NYI 1 yr
77 Anson Carter           RW 2.0 mill NJ 3 yr
88 Eric Lindros           RW 2.0 mill PHO 1 yr
38 Dean McAmmond    C 1.9 mill EDM 1 yr
10 Peter Bondra           RW 1.0 mill FLO 1 yr
16 Trevor Linden          RW 1.375 mill OTT 2 yr
19 Scott Mellanby         RW 1.875 mill ANA 1 yr

Top pairing defensemen:

43 Philippe Boucher        D  8 mill and counting
5 Nicklas Lidstrom        D   13.0 mill SJ 1 yr
4 Rob Blake               D 5.4 mill BUF 1 yr
36 Roman Hamrlik           D 4.5 mill NYR 5 yr

#3/#4 second pairing d-men:

7 Karlis Skrastins        D 5.0 mill CLB 4 yr
5 Mattias Norstrom        D 5.5+ mill and counting
6 Bret Hedican            D 2.5 mill PHO 1 yr
8 Aaron Ward              D 3.5 mill CLB 3yr
3 Jaroslav Spacek         D 2.4 mill BOS 4 yr
71 Patrice Brisebois       D 1.8+ mill and counting
25 Ken Klee                D  2.6 mill and counting

#5/#6 third pairing dmen:

4 Glen Wesley             D 2.0 mill DAL 2 yr
3 Keith Carney            D 2.5+ mill and counting

Starting goaltenders:

39 Dominik Hasek           G 5.0 mill VAN 2 yr
35 Nikolai Khabibulin      G 7.25 mill MON 2 yr
30 Dwayne Roloson          G 5.0 mill PHI 2 yr

Tandem/Back-up netminders

26 Ed Belfour              G 2.0 mill PHO 1yr
8 Tim Thomas              G 2.5 mill NYR 4 yr
32 Curtis Joseph           G  2.2 mill and counting
31 Martin Gerber           G  3.7 mil and counting
30 Chris Osgood            G 1.4 mill DET 1yr

Islanders GM · Senior Member

Islanders GM wrote:

31 Martin Rucinsky        LW 2.5 mill DET 2 yr
37 Michael Peca            C 2.0 mill DAL 2yr
94 Yanic Perreault         C 2.3 mill NYI 2 yr
77 Anson Carter           RW 2.0 mill NJ 3 yr
4 Rob Blake               D 5.4 mill BUF 1 yr
3 Jaroslav Spacek         D 2.4 mill BOS 4 yr
39 Dominik Hasek           G 5.0 mill VAN 2 yr
26 Ed Belfour              G 2.0 mill PHO 1yr
30 Chris Osgood            G 1.4 mill DET 1yr

I really like all of these signings, personally.

Panthers · Senior Member

Islanders GM wrote:

Islanders GM wrote:

31 Martin Rucinsky LW 2.5 mill DET 2 yr
37 Michael Peca C 2.0 mill DAL 2yr
94 Yanic Perreault C 2.3 mill NYI 2 yr
77 Anson Carter RW 2.0 mill NJ 3 yr
4 Rob Blake D 5.4 mill BUF 1 yr
3 Jaroslav Spacek D 2.4 mill BOS 4 yr
39 Dominik Hasek G 5.0 mill VAN 2 yr
26 Ed Belfour G 2.0 mill PHO 1yr
30 Chris Osgood G 1.4 mill DET 1yr
I really like all of these signings, personally.

I agree. I already stated my concerns about Carter, but I think the Spacek signing may be one of the best long term bargains, while the Blake and Hasek deals are great short term.

LAKings · Senior Member

Nothin like basing OV off a defensemans worth.. Hamrlik is some how a #1 pairing guy while Norstrom isn't.. frankly I'd rather have Norstrom on my #1 pairing than Hamrlik.. that 81 DF is pretty fancy and he is an elite shut down defenseman.

Islanders GM wrote:

This is not a complete list but the pre-UFA list I compiled to help g.m.s prepare for the bidding period. Posting the contracts gives a sense of relative worth THIS season, based on their ratings NOW, not on re-rate potential of course.

Ideal first liners:

68 Jaromir Jagr RW 10.5 mill VAN 2 yr
19 Joe Sakic  C   10.5 VAN 2 yr
13 Mats Sundin  C 8.6 mill TB 3 yr
82 Martin Straka  C/LW 8.6+ mill and counting (unsigned)
11 Mark Recchi  RW/LW   7.5 mill STL 1 yr

Ideal second liners:

20 Mike Sillinger          C/LW 6.9+ mill and counting
44 Jason Arnott            C 7.5 mill NYR 5 yr
32 Jozef Stumpel       RW/C 6.0 mill SJ 1 yr
39 Doug Weight        C  6.0 mill and counting

Second/third liners:

96 Tomas Holmstrom    LW 6.9 mill EDM 2 yr
31 Martin Rucinsky        LW 2.5 mill DET 2 yr
11 John Madden             C 5.0 mill TOR 2 yr
37 Michael Peca            C 2.0 mill DAL 2yr
33 Steve Rucchin           C 2.15 mill ANA 1 yr
23 Scott Walker           RW 4.2 mill CAL 3yr
61 Cory Stillman          LW 3.6 mill FLA 3 yr

Third/Fourth liners:

8 Geoff Sanderson       LW 2.4 mill NYI 2 yr
10 Dallas Drake           LW 2.25 mill CAR 2 yr
16 Chris Simon            LW 2.0 mill NYI 2 yr
26 Stephane Yelle          C  3.0 mill and counting
94 Yanic Perreault         C 2.3 mill NYI 2 yr
7 Derek Armstrong         C 1.9 mill EDM 3yr
41 Stu Barnes              C 1.4 mill DAL 2 yr
97 Jeremy Roenick        C 2.2 mill NYI 1 yr
77 Anson Carter           RW 2.0 mill NJ 3 yr
88 Eric Lindros           RW 2.0 mill PHO 1 yr
38 Dean McAmmond    C 1.9 mill EDM 1 yr
10 Peter Bondra           RW 1.0 mill FLO 1 yr
16 Trevor Linden          RW 1.375 mill OTT 2 yr
19 Scott Mellanby         RW 1.875 mill ANA 1 yr

Top pairing defensemen:

43 Philippe Boucher        D  8 mill and counting
5 Nicklas Lidstrom        D   13.0 mill SJ 1 yr
4 Rob Blake               D 5.4 mill BUF 1 yr
36 Roman Hamrlik           D 4.5 mill NYR 5 yr

#3/#4 second pairing d-men:

7 Karlis Skrastins        D 5.0 mill CLB 4 yr
5 Mattias Norstrom        D 5.5+ mill and counting
6 Bret Hedican            D 2.5 mill PHO 1 yr
8 Aaron Ward              D 3.5 mill CLB 3yr
3 Jaroslav Spacek         D 2.4 mill BOS 4 yr
71 Patrice Brisebois       D 1.8+ mill and counting
25 Ken Klee                D  2.6 mill and counting

#5/#6 third pairing dmen:

4 Glen Wesley             D 2.0 mill DAL 2 yr
3 Keith Carney            D 2.5+ mill and counting

Starting goaltenders:

39 Dominik Hasek           G 5.0 mill VAN 2 yr
35 Nikolai Khabibulin      G 7.25 mill MON 2 yr
30 Dwayne Roloson          G 5.0 mill PHI 2 yr

Tandem/Back-up netminders

26 Ed Belfour              G 2.0 mill PHO 1yr
8 Tim Thomas              G 2.5 mill NYR 4 yr
32 Curtis Joseph           G  2.2 mill and counting
31 Martin Gerber           G  3.7 mil and counting
30 Chris Osgood            G 1.4 mill DET 1yr

Islanders GM · Senior Member

LAKings wrote:

Nothin like basing OV off a defensemans worth.. Hamrlik is some how a #1 pairing guy while Norstrom isn't..

I don't look just at OV.

Roman Hamrlik D L OK 72 64 75 85 72 65 65 68 80 71 58 86 87 76

Mattias Norstrom D L OK 70 66 78 77 86 78 69 59 60 81 57 81 84 75

The key stat for a top pairing defenseman is endurance! especially if you want to use the player on special teams.

It's well known in the FHLsim world that top pairing defensemen should have 80+ endurance ratings. This has been well studied over the years. I can provide a link or two for you, but you can google to them too.

Also, in addition, Norstrom has no passing and not even puck control, so coughing up the puck against the opposition's top line is a bad idea. A great defensive defenseman makes an excellent second pairing partner. Can he play on the first pairing on an average team? sure. 77 endurance isn't awful. But 85 is significantly better.

It's often said to look at defense and puck control together to assess the worth of a defenseman defensively. Norstrom is a good penalty killer and a #3 defenseman.

-- Edited by Islanders GM at 19:21, 2007-08-30

LAKings · Senior Member

Islanders GM wrote:

LAKings wrote:

Nothin like basing OV off a defensemans worth.. Hamrlik is some how a #1 pairing guy while Norstrom isn't..
I don't look just at OV.

Roman Hamrlik D L OK 72 64 75 85 72 65 65 68 80 71 58 86 87 76

Mattias Norstrom D L OK 70 66 78 77 86 78 69 59 60 81 57 81 84 75

The key stat for a top pairing defenseman is endurance! especially if you want to use the player on special teams.

It's well known in the FHLsim world that top pairing defensemen should have 80+ endurance ratings. This has been well studied over the years. I can provide a link or two for you, but you can google to them too.

Also, in addition, Norstrom has no passing and not even puck control, so coughing up the puck against the opposition's top line is a bad idea. A great defensive defenseman makes an excellent second pairing partner. Can he play on the first pairing on an average team? sure. 77 endurance isn't awful. But 85 is significantly better.

It's often said to look at defense and puck control together to assess the worth of a defensive defenseman. Norstrom is a good penalty killer and a #3 defenseman.

-- Edited by Islanders GM at 19:18, 2007-08-30

Meh I disagree.. and its all with the guy you are playing with as well.. what would you rather have.. two Hamrliks or a Hamrlik and a Norstrom. I think you are severly under rating DF rating in this instance. Norstrom is a shut down defenseman.. Hamrlik is not. Its a matter of opinion and teams need really. Look at my team.. is Norstrom a better fit beside Timonen or Hamrlik?

Islanders GM · Senior Member

LAKings wrote:

Meh I disagree.. and its all with the guy you are playing with as well.. what would you rather have.. two Hamrliks or a Hamrlik and a Norstrom. Look at my team.. is Norstrom a better fit beside Timonen or Hamrlik?

I don't know what you're disagreeing with but your additional new point is good: who is a good fit beside Timonen on the Kings blueline this season?

You are not dealing with "ideally", you're dealing with icing a competitive team. Is your blueline geared to be a cup contender? It'll be alright, but not ideal.

LAKings · Senior Member

Islanders GM wrote:

LAKings wrote:

Meh I disagree.. and its all with the guy you are playing with as well.. what would you rather have.. two Hamrliks or a Hamrlik and a Norstrom. Look at my team.. is Norstrom a better fit beside Timonen or Hamrlik?

I don't know what you're disagreeing with but your additional new point is good: who is a good fit beside Timonen on the Kings blueline this season?

You are not dealing with "ideally", you're dealing with icing a competitive team. Is your blueline geared to be a cup contender? It'll be alright, but not ideal.

No.. its not ideal obviously.. Ideal would a Lidstrom or another Timonen (or Boucher perhaps? weirdface

) It is tough to say though because Timonen has a such good all around numbers, including DF, that Hamrlik would probably do ok beside him.. where as if you had a Hamrlik rated d-man already.. you'd probably be better off with a Norstrom instead of another Hamrlik rated d-man

Islanders GM · Senior Member

Martin Straka

Carolina

$12,993,750

UFA salaries may be insane but there is a certain logic. Is this a 1-year signing?

Carolina now can ice LW/C Straka on a great first line:

Straka-Spezza-Knuble
Penner-Tkachuk-Eaves

or give the 'Canes two very good lines:

Tkachuk-Spezza-Knuble
Penner-Straka-Eaves

Islanders GM · Senior Member

best/worst signings of the day:

Best (not great, but good, considering):

Doug Weight (BOSTON BRUINS)
1 year @ 6 million
3 million SB

No doubt 1 year is wise for an unreliable 36 year old centre. He can't be tagged but at 63 scoring, 73 passing, his role as the team's second pivot for guys like O'Neill and Pyatt is a useful one.

Philippe Boucher (L.A. KINGS)
3 years @ 8 million
12 million SB

Overpaid by about 2 mill I'd think but the fact is he's an elite defenseman in the new era, underrated in the NHL but not here. The bedrock for the solid top-3 core of the Kings blueline for years to come.

Worst:

Stephane Yelle (NYR)
5 years @ 3 million
7.5 million SB

Joe, Joe, Joe. Once again another 5-year contract to a veteran, this time to a 72 ov penalty killer, an ideal fourth line centre and average third liner. It's like the team wants to spend its cash more than it wants to set an appropriate contract length. The trade value of the player diminishes because of the excessive length. Give 5 year deals to the Sakics and Jagrs of the world, not the Yelles and Hamrliks. Interesting though.

Martin Gerber (NSH)
2 years @ 5 million
1 million SB

If one believes he will be a starter again in the NHL then this deal makes sense. But to overpay so much for a backup netminder is not a great signing. What makes it a particualrly bad signing is the tiny bonus: the cap hit would be much less if a bigger bonus had been given.

PhoenixGM · Guru

Isn't NYR's signing of Yelle breaking the cap?

He's currently just under 47 million before the yelle contract even get's on his books...

Looks like Kariya is sitting the first 10 games of the season, and NYR is losing $2,000,000

Steve

-- Edited by PhoenixGM at 09:32, 2007-08-31

Panthers · Senior Member

PhoenixGM wrote:

Isn't NYR's signing of Yelle breaking the cap?

He's currently just under 47 million before the yelle contract even get's on his books...

Looks like Kariya is sitting the first 10 games of the season, and NYR is losing $2,000,000

Steve

-- Edited by PhoenixGM at 09:32, 2007-08-31

I think he already cut 2M by trading Arnott for Jovo. As long as that trade goes through he will be fine.