Tampa for GM of the Year

Philippe27 · Guru

RE: Tampa for GM of the Year

VanIslander · Guru

Philippe27 wrote:

I think GM of the year needs to have at least made the playoffs

I absolutely disagree. If a g.m. traded to get Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin and as a result have to await re-rates to be dominant, then that is great managing. Low payroll, high profit is much better than first round exit with bloated salary at the cap and bare financial success and limited prospect base.

The playoffs per se shouldn't matter in the least.

Short term vs. medium term vs. long term is an open question. There is more than one way of being a great g.m.

Florida Panthers · Senior Member

VanIslander wrote:
Philippe27 wrote:

I think GM of the year needs to have at least made the playoffs

I absolutely disagree. If a g.m. traded to get Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin and as a result have to await re-rates to be dominant, then that is great managing. Low payroll, high profit is much better than first round exit with bloated salary at the cap and bare financial success and limited prospect base.

The playoffs per se shouldn't matter in the least.

Short term vs. medium term vs. long term is an open question. There is more than one way of being a great g.m

I disagree as well that the team has to be in the playoffs, although i also disagree with the idea around trading for Crosby, Malkin, and Ovechkin making you a great GM. That might make you a great GM down the line for having done that, but "GM of the year" is based on THIS year. Sacrificing short term success for long term gain, to me anyway, is not something that means you were successful as a GM for THIS year. I fully agree that there is more than one way to look at being "a great GM", but I think that the key component is that it's GM "of the year". It's not "overall best league GM for the entire duration of the league". In that case, 3 years from now, that guy that sacrificed year one, for 3 cup winning seasons afterwards, may very well get something like that.

I also will put little to no emphasis on the amount of cash that a team has, although I'd factor in poor money management against someone. I certainly don't see those as being the same thing. In this league, there's so many ways to obtain absurd amounts of money, especially from methods that have nothing to do with being a GM, that I just don't see it as being a big deal in any way.

-- Edited by Florida Panthers at 20:33, 2007-04-26

VanIslander · Guru

It is a sign of a good g.m. to get a competitive team without a bloated salary at the maximum cap.

The Montreal vs. Carolina series is a testament to the fact that teams can succeed with much less in salary. Carolina with $ 27.8 million has made the playoffs (and incidentally, is up 3-2 in the series), and Montreal with $ 33 million is the number one seed in the conference.

That IS a factor.

But the Canadiens and Hurricanes have not improved their teams through trade, and Montreal has serious RFA issues, needing to re-sign Elias, Iginla, Halpern, Roy, in fact nearly all skaters are RFA !!! That is risky managing, as it means several trades will have to be made, or at least some, just to stay under the cap.

There are other factors.

Philippe27 · Guru

VanIslander wrote:

Philippe27 wrote:

I think GM of the year needs to have at least made the playoffs

Low payroll, high profit is much better than first round exit with bloated salary at the cap and bare financial success and limited prospect base.

The playoffs per se shouldn't matter in the least.

Short term vs. medium term vs. long term is an open question. There is more than one way of being a great g.m.

I'm not saying give GM of the year to a team that loaded on UFA's because that's easy to do. I also think it's too early to judge whether or not guys like Buffalo and San Jose have done a good job because their prospects haven't developed.
That's why I think it should go to a team that made the playoffs (which isn't very hard to do if you're not loaded with prospects) but that team must have a good future and be pretty solid financially which is why in my mind it's between New Jersey, Minnesota and Tampa Bay (but I can't vote for myself).

VanIslander · Guru

Philippe27 wrote:

it's too early to judge whether or not guys like Buffalo and San Jose have done a good job because their prospects haven't developed.

Buffalo g.m.s Luke and Aaron have demonstrated a good example of managing a franchise. I applaud them.

They have both the best player in the league today in Sidney Crosby and the best crop of NHL-performing rookies. Anze Kopitar is a finalist-quality prospect for the Calder who will re-rate awesome. Travis Zajac has 42 pts as a NHL rookie so he'll re-rate decent. And Joe Pavelski only played the last half of the NHL season but has 14 goals 28 points and is a solid youngster for next season and beyond. Plus one of the best crops of prospects. And the Sabres have four 1st rounders in this summer's draft.

For a new franchise to build toward long term rather than short term success is entirely legit.

They have plenty of cap room to sign quality UFAs and their organization is STRONG, giving them plenty of options for the short or medium or long term future. Building a strong organization is a prime criterion of being a good g.m.

Philippe27 · Guru

VanIslander wrote:

Philippe27 wrote:

it's too early to judge whether or not guys like Buffalo and San Jose have done a good job because their prospects haven't developed.

Buffalo g.m.s Luke and Aaron have demonstrated a good example of managing a franchise. I applaud them.

They have both the best player in the league today in Sidney Crosby and the best crop of NHL-performing rookies. Anze Kopitar is a finalist-quality prospect for the Calder who will re-rate awesome. Travis Zajac has 42 pts as a NHL rookie so he'll re-rate decent. And Joe Pavelski only played the last half of the NHL season but has 14 goals 28 points and is a solid youngster for next season and beyond. Plus one of the best crops of prospects. And the Sabres have four 1st rounders in this summer's draft.

For a new franchise to build toward long term rather than short term success is entirely legit.

They have plenty of cap room to sign quality UFAs and their organization is STRONG, giving them plenty of options for the short or medium or long term future. Building a strong organization is a prime criterion of being a good g.m.

Oh I totally agree, they've built something very good that could turn out to be excellent but I think there's too many question marks right now. They'll likely get my vote the year they sign FA's and become competitive but I don't think GM of the year should go to a rebuilder because most teams want to win now in a league like this so it's easier to rebuild.
Anyways that's just my opinion,

PHO · Senior Member

VanIslander wrote:

Philippe27 wrote:

I think GM of the year needs to have at least made the playoffs

I absolutely disagree. If a g.m. traded to get Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin and as a result have to await re-rates to be dominant, then that is great managing. Low payroll, high profit is much better than first round exit with bloated salary at the cap and bare financial success and limited prospect base.

The playoffs per se shouldn't matter in the least.

Short term vs. medium term vs. long term is an open question. There is more than one way of being a great g.m.

I am absolutely baffled by this line of thinking. The playoffs shouldn't matter? WHAT IS THE POINT OF A LEAGUE? Again, I answer TO WIN. If a team trades for several young stars, he should win GM of the year when that team comes CLOSE to being competitive FOR THE CUP. Wow, I am stunned at some of the thoughts on this board. I am not saying winner of the Cup should automatically be crowned GM of the year. But come on guys...listen to yourselves...its GM of THHHHIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSS YEAR!!!!! I can trade all of my vets such as Selanne, Shanzy, Stillman, Whitney etc, and get a boatload of young talent that may or may not succeed. Should I still get GM of the year if I make the playoffs and even into the second round??? HELL NO. But if that translates into maybe a conference final or even Cup appearance next year, then give it to me next year....NOT THIS YEAR. Who are we to say who will be great, good or **** next year? We all have different opinions on prospects, so that in no way should bear on the GM of THISSSSS YEAR. Anyways, I am putting this to rest on my end, I can't bear to read anymore.

VanIslander · Guru

Philippe27 wrote:
they've built something very good that could turn out to be excellent but I think there's too many question marks right now.

I think you'd better look at their 100% guarranteed re-rates... no question marks!!

The young blueline core of Bouwmeester (42 pts, +23), Weber (40 pts) and Ehrhoff (33 pts) will re-rate well. Forwards Crosby, Kopitar, Zajac, Pavelski will re-rate well, PLUS Dustin Brown has 46 pts to re-rate well enough to play second line, Jeff Carter has 37 pts in 62 games.... that makes 9 decent re-rates of basement-salary NHLers!! no question marks there for next season.

With Hull's salary gone the Sabres are set to add three or four superstars through free agencty because of excellent general management which positioned themselves financially for it.

Question marks perhaps with O'Sullivan (19 pts in 44 games), Erickson (19 pts in 59 games), Potulny (12 pts in 35 games), Hutchinson on d (14 pts in half season of work) and Harding (excellent but only a few starts). But these 5 players could have backline and backup responsibilities next season and their development is not required, gievn up deep is the prospect base and how many great picks are built up, giving plenty of trading options.

Again, without question, the Buffalo Sabres are one fo the strongest organization's at season's end.

Matt's Bluejackets, in comparison, is chocked full of UFAs to compete for the cup this season but with a gutted organization the g.m. needs to go all the way to justify what will be a weak organization for years to come.

Florida Panthers · Senior Member

VanIslander wrote:
Buffalo g.m.s Luke and Aaron have demonstrated a good example of managing a franchise. I applaud them.

They have both the best player in the league today in Sidney Crosby and the best crop of NHL-performing rookies. Anze Kopitar is a finalist-quality prospect for the Calder who will re-rate awesome. Travis Zajac has 42 pts as a NHL rookie so he'll re-rate decent. And Joe Pavelski only played the last half of the NHL season but has 14 goals 28 points and is a solid youngster for next season and beyond. Plus one of the best crops of prospects. And the Sabres have four 1st rounders in this summer's draft.

For a new franchise to build toward long term rather than short term success is entirely legit.

They have plenty of cap room to sign quality UFAs and their organization is STRONG, giving them plenty of options for the short or medium or long term future. Building a strong organization is a prime criterion of being a good g.m.

Only in a fantasy league could anybody possibly consider even thinking about possibly deciding to maybe pick the team that finishes last in the league... as having the GM of the year.

Philippe27 · Guru

VanIslander wrote:

Philippe27 wrote:
they've built something very good that could turn out to be excellent but I think there's too many question marks right now.
I think you'd better look at their 100% guarranteed re-rates... no question marks!!

The young blueline core of Bouwmeester (42 pts, +23), Weber (40 pts) and Ehrhoff (33 pts) will re-rate well. Forwards Crosby, Kopitar, Zajac, Pavelski will re-rate well, PLUS Dustin Brown has 46 pts to re-rate well enough to play second line, Jeff Carter has 37 pts in 62 games.... that makes 9 decent re-rates of basement-salary NHLers!! no question marks there for next season.

With Hull's salary gone the Sabres are set to add three or four superstars through free agencty because of excellent general management which positioned themselves financially for it.

Question marks perhaps with O'Sullivan (19 pts in 44 games), Erickson (19 pts in 59 games), Potulny (12 pts in 35 games), Hutchinson on d (14 pts in half season of work) and Harding (excellent but only a few starts). But these 5 players could have backline and backup responsibilities next season and their development is not required, gievn up deep is the prospect base and how many great picks are built up, giving plenty of trading options.

Again, without question, the Buffalo Sabres are one fo the strongest organization's at season's end.

Matt's Bluejackets, in comparison, is chocked full of UFAs to compete for the cup this season but with a gutted organization the g.m. needs to go all the way to justify what will be a weak organization for years to come.

Did I say Blue Jackets?
I got Lecavalier (108 pts), Briere (95 pts), Semin (73 pts), Bergeron (70 pts), Zubrus (60 pts), Higgins (51 pts prorated), Arnason (49 pts), Hamilton (46 pts prorated), Backes (38 pts prorated), Latendresse (29 pts), Liles (51 pts prorated), Turco (one of the top goalies), Hatcher and Gauthier (2 of the leaders in PK time and blocked shots).

I know Buffalo is very good but I think the hardest thing to achieve is being competitive this year and the next 5 years which I think very few teams have been able to achieve (Minnesota and New Jersey being the others)

-- Edited by Philippe27 at 22:17, 2007-04-26

VanIslander · Guru

Florida Panthers wrote:

Only in a fantasy league could anybody possibly consider even thinking about possibly deciding to maybe pick the team that finishes last in the league... as having the GM of the year.

Who is doing that?

I was saying that having a strong organization is A necessary criterion of good general management and that the g.m.s in Buffalo have done a good job.

A team like Columbus may make the playoffs but that doesn't mean the general management has been better!! short term does not trump long term.

There are many factors making for a good g.m., to make a short-term cup run wihtout sacrificing the future would be great, making a dynasty-dominant long-term team while still being at least comepetitive if not playoff-bound would also be great.

if Buffalo had at least acquired a couple of players to be competitive this year to at least be in the running for a playoff spot down the stretch (like Chicago)... then they would have a good bid for g.m. of the year... but to let their team be so bad all season long is cheating the fans and not the best of management.

Short term, medium and long term factors are all RELEVANT, no one is sufficient!

That's my point.

VanIslander · Guru

Philippe27 wrote:
I got Lecavalier (108 pts), Briere (95 pts), Semin (73 pts), Bergeron (70 pts), Zubrus (60 pts), Higgins (51 pts prorated), Arnason (49 pts), Hamilton (46 pts prorated), Backes (38 pts prorated), Latendresse (29 pts), Liles (51 pts prorated), Turco (one of the top goalies), Hatcher and Gauthier (2 of the leaders in PK time and blocked shots).

Briere RFA, huge salary raise expected.
Turco RFA, big salary raise expected.
Bergeron RFA, salary raise expected.
Arnason RFA, salary raise expected.
Higgins, RFA, salary raise expected.

And you have other RFA too! And already at the cap ceiling.

Thta is not ideal managing of the franchise. Sorry, it isn't. It would be better if a g.m. had cut down on RFAs and gotten a BALANCE, with more under-contract re-rate players.

The Lightning will not be a player in free agency unless several major trades are made.

VanIslander · Guru

Some g.m.s have done a good job of getting players under contract, limiting their RFA to levels they can afford to re-sign.

George's Blackhawks comes immediately to mind, as I noticed and admired the focus on multi-year contract players. Key forwards are under contract for next season: Thornton, Handzus, Richards, Nash, Plekanec and several d-men and lots of support, developing players like Brule.

Rod's Penguins have 13 players under contract.

John's Devils is most impressive with Kiprusoff, Alfredsson, Doan, Kozlov, Forsberg, Conroy all under contract, leaving them to focus on re-signing their top two defensemen.

It's a factor. One among many. Not necessary, not sufficient. But relevant.

Philippe27 · Guru

Briere RFA, huge salary raise expected.
Turco RFA, big salary raise expected.
Bergeron RFA, salary raise expected.
Arnason RFA, salary raise expected.
Higgins, RFA, salary raise expected.
For the record they've all been signed and my payroll is at 33M for 18 players.

Is that good managing of the franchise?

This is why this trade was done and it will be processed right after the playoffs:
Tanguay, White, Roberts, Johnson and 15M for Semin, Lukowich, Danis, Robidas, Burrows, Ward, STL2 and STL4