BRHL2 Schedule

VanIslander · Guru

RE: BRHL2 Schedule

Florida Panthers · Senior Member

Philippe27 wrote:

Also, right now we are playing the 2005-06 season, not the 2006-07 season so your Jagr and Bieksa arguments make no sense. What it would be nice is that next year since Bieksa had such a great season in the NHL that he is actually a good defenseman unlike right now where it seems that all the d-men are basically the same.

Actually, the point about Jagr makes perfect sense, and is something similar to a point i made a while back. The point is not to re-create the 2005-06 NHL season. It's to create players that have similar characteristics as those NHL players. That does not mean that there's any sort of guarantee that they're going to put up the same production, it simply doesn't. And again, that certainly seems to be what you're expecting and wanting. The point about Jagr is that real life Jagr was quite certainly expected to put up more than 24 goals at this point of the season. He hasn't. It just goes to show that because Jagr was expected to, and can, doesn't mean he's going to. Just like any BRHL2 player has the potential to put up numbers consistent with their characteristics/ratings, it doesn't mean they're going to!

You're making it sound like every single player in the BRHL2 is acting in a totally random fashion, which is of course, simply untrue. Yes, there's overachievers, and yes, there's underachievers... just like in real life. The FHL system isn't perfect by any means. It's certainly not an easy thing to factor in every single variable that can go towards creating a realistic output. But just like in real life, being the best on paper, or the worst on paper, doesn't mean your team finishes first, or last respectively.

Philippe27 · Guru

Florida Panthers wrote:

Philippe27 wrote:

Also, right now we are playing the 2005-06 season, not the 2006-07 season so your Jagr and Bieksa arguments make no sense. What it would be nice is that next year since Bieksa had such a great season in the NHL that he is actually a good defenseman unlike right now where it seems that all the d-men are basically the same.
Actually, the point about Jagr makes perfect sense, and is something similar to a point i made a while back. The point is not to re-create the 2005-06 NHL season. It's to create players that have similar characteristics as those NHL players. That does not mean that there's any sort of guarantee that they're going to put up the same production, it simply doesn't. And again, that certainly seems to be what you're expecting and wanting. The point about Jagr is that real life Jagr was quite certainly expected to put up more than 24 goals at this point of the season. He hasn't. It just goes to show that because Jagr was expected to, and can, doesn't mean he's going to. Just like any BRHL2 player has the potential to put up numbers consistent with their characteristics/ratings, it doesn't mean they're going to!

You're making it sound like every single player in the BRHL2 is acting in a totally random fashion, which is of course, simply untrue. Yes, there's overachievers, and yes, there's underachievers... just like in real life. The FHL system isn't perfect by any means. It's certainly not an easy thing to factor in every single variable that can go towards creating a realistic output. But just like in real life, being the best on paper, or the worst on paper, doesn't mean your team finishes first, or last respectively.

It would be nice though that with a Vincent Lecavalier on my team or a Sidney crosby on Buffalo who are currently tominating the NHL that I would be somewhat guaranteed say a top 10 scorer. I'm not saying that they should be #1 and #2 all the time because that's impossible I know but it also sucks that under the current ratings I can expect say a top 30 scorer, if we get lucky they'll be better. I'm not saying make them 99 and everyone is 10 pts back but somewhere between the 2 extremes would be nice.

Florida Panthers · Senior Member

Philippe27 wrote:

It would be nice though that with a Vincent Lecavalier on my team or a Sidney crosby on Buffalo who are currently tominating the NHL that I would be somewhat guaranteed say a top 10 scorer. I'm not saying that they should be #1 and #2 all the time because that's impossible I know but it also sucks that under the current ratings I can expect say a top 30 scorer, if we get lucky they'll be better. I'm not saying make them 99 and everyone is 10 pts back but somewhere between the 2 extremes would be nice

There's zero guarnatees in the NHL, why should there be guarantees in the BRHL2? in 03-04 St. Louis lead the league in points. The next year he dropped 33 points, and wasn't even a top 50 point producer. Last year in the NHL Lecavalier wasn't even a point per game player. He wasn't a top 30 player. Does that mean that in the BRHL2 he should pretty much no chance of being a top player like he is in the NHL this year? How about Briere... in his entire NHL career, before this NHL season, he had only 1 great, essentially half-season. Clearly he shouldn't be producing the NHL like he is then. Alfredsson was tied for 4th in the NHL in points last season... he's tied for 14th right now. Shouldn't he be getting more points? Maybe the best example... Eric Stall had a hundred points last year. This year he's not even on pace to hit 70.

I don't see it as wanting something between 2 extremes. I see the BRHL2 doing a pretty good job of reflecting how reality is (not with the same players doing the same as the NHL, but with under/overachievers). I see what you want as being an extreme. I fully understand why you want it, but i see it no different than the frustration a real life NHL coach has when he has underachieving players. Don't you think that the entire Hurricane organization isn't thinking to themselves "what the hell Erik Staal... where's those 15 more goals and 30+ more points you got for us last year... if you were getting them now, we wouldn't be in this position fighting for a playoff spot!" Yes yes, they had injuries especially to the defence, put the point is the same.

And let's also factor in that Crosby players with absolutely nobody except for JBo on Buffalo's team. And you still want him to put up top 10 numbers???

-- Edited by Florida Panthers at 00:19, 2007-03-20

Philippe27 · Guru

Florida Panthers wrote:

Philippe27 wrote:

It would be nice though that with a Vincent Lecavalier on my team or a Sidney crosby on Buffalo who are currently tominating the NHL that I would be somewhat guaranteed say a top 10 scorer. I'm not saying that they should be #1 and #2 all the time because that's impossible I know but it also sucks that under the current ratings I can expect say a top 30 scorer, if we get lucky they'll be better. I'm not saying make them 99 and everyone is 10 pts back but somewhere between the 2 extremes would be nice
There's zero guarnatees in the NHL, why should there be guarantees in the BRHL2? in 03-04 St. Louis lead the league in points. The next year he dropped 33 points, and wasn't even a top 50 point producer. Last year in the NHL Lecavalier wasn't even a point per game player. He wasn't a top 30 player. Does that mean that in the BRHL2 he should pretty much no chance of being a top player like he is in the NHL this year? How about Briere... in his entire NHL career, before this NHL season, he had only 1 great, essentially half-season. Clearly he shouldn't be producing the NHL like he is then. Alfredsson was tied for 4th in the NHL in points last season... he's tied for 14th right now. Shouldn't he be getting more points? Maybe the best example... Eric Stall had a hundred points last year. This year he's not even on pace to hit 70.

I don't see it as wanting something between 2 extremes. I see the BRHL2 doing a pretty good job of reflecting how reality is (not with the same players doing the same as the NHL, but with under/overachievers). I see what you want as being an extreme. I fully understand why you want it, but i see it no different than the frustration a real life NHL coach has when he has underachieving players. Don't you think that the entire Hurricane organization isn't thinking to themselves "what the hell Erik Staal... where's those 15 more goals and 30+ more points you got for us last year... if you were getting them now, we wouldn't be in this position fighting for a playoff spot!" Yes yes, they had injuries especially to the defence, put the point is the same.

DUDE I knwo there are no guarantees in the NHL and if Lecavalier starts sucking in 2006-07 then he will suck on my team too but it shouldn't be next season, it should be when WE ARE IN OUR 2006-07 SEASON.
The way it is not only may I get a ****ty Lecavalier when he had 50 goals in the NHL but I may get a ****ty Lecavalier for the seasons that will follow if his production drops off in the NHL.

Sabres · Guru

I (luke) tend to agree with mostly everybody for many different reasons; I'll try to keep it short and in point form so it's easy to read.

Ratings
-To be quite honest you guys could be arguing over the same things with a different rating systems.
-However, I do think we need to get sort of a feeling as to if people would be OPEN to LOOKING INTO different ways in which the ratings could be altered.
-I do think top players should be rewarded in the ratings and that top player should be more around 88-90 rather than 83-85.

-Granted, even if that does happen. It still leaves a bunch of room for the sim's randomness. In one of my other leagues like i said, Todd white has a 78 rating and is outscoring joe thornton who is 87. I don't really think the validity of the Blake, Bieksa, Jagr comparisions are really that great because the same things could/would be happening if the ratings were phillippe's way. So what are we really arguing about?

-In regards to TB's comment on crappy forwards like A.carter. He did have a good year last year. Which is why he is having a good sim year this year.

-I do think there are some flaws in this system as it is..

Conclusion:
I think if we keep these ratings as it is it leaves MORE room for teams who dont really deserve to win, to win.
If we make alterations on the ratings, depending how big, will leave not quite as much room for upsets but there will still be many. Anytime we are working with the FHL sim program there will be unexpected things.
-Things like chemistry will remain a factor with either rating system.
-Basically what it comes down to is that I dont believe how the ratings are done are sufficient reflection of the player. I'm sure it's an opinion many disagree with but I think there can be middle ground reached if we all just talk about the ways each category is calculated right now, and brainstorm other ways to calculate it, and maybe there for the majority of the category's bryce and eric's system have it perfect. Then great. But i think we should at least be able to talk about it.
_

Florida Panthers · Senior Member

Philippe27 wrote:

DUDE I knwo there are no guarantees in the NHL and if Lecavalier starts sucking in 2006-07 then he will suck on my team too but it shouldn't be next season, it should be when WE ARE IN OUR 2006-07 SEASON.
The way it is not only may I get a ****ty Lecavalier when he had 50 goals in the NHL but I may get a ****ty Lecavalier for the seasons that will follow if his production drops off in the NHL.

I really really don't understand why this is a hard concept to understand. Years make no difference, we're talking generalities here.

Forget about what season we're in compared to the real NHL, it makes no difference, the point remains the same... last year, real NHL Staal scores 100 points. The expectation by Carolina staff and fans is that he's going to get around 100 points again this year. He's fallen wwwwaaaaayyyyy short of that. Everyone's disaapointed.

You're expecting Lecavalier and Crosby to put up good numbers. They don't. So?

It still seems like you're thinking of the league as something that should re-create what happened in the NHL 05-06 season. That's just not the point. Once all those players are inputted in to the sim, it's a separate league, with different players playing with different linemates, and different coaches, on different teams. It's just not going to spit out the same results, nor should it, as the real NHL.

OilersBrent · Senior Member

I agree with FLorida here. The players shouldn't be guarunteed to do anything otherwise it would be such a boring fantasy game.

Look at Lecavalier this year in the NHL. He is dominating, something very few of us expected. His career high in points was around 70. It was a surprise for him to do so good. That should happen in our league too. It shouldn't be the same guys every year winning the Art Ross and the Maurice Richard.

Philippe27 · Guru

OilersBrent wrote:

I agree with FLorida here. The players shouldn't be guarunteed to do anything otherwise it would be such a boring fantasy game.

Look at Lecavalier this year in the NHL. He is dominating, something very few of us expected. His career high in points was around 70. It was a surprise for him to do so good. That should happen in our league too. It shouldn't be the same guys every year winning the Art Ross and the Maurice Richard.

God this isn't hard to understand. I know there will never be any guarantees and no for me it wasn't a surprise that he is that good, I traded for him at the right time and he broke out. it would be nice to actually get rewarded a little for making a smart decision.
Florida you say Carolina expected a 100pt season. They got their 100pts season in 05-06 from Staal. The GM in this league who owns Staal should also get one good season, will it be 90 pts or will it be 120 pts, the sim will decide that but it would be nice that he actually gets 90 pts and that he doesn't get unlucky and has a 60 pts season in BRHL2. iIt's just not fair, we should get rewarded for scouting talent and get rewarded when our players have good seasons in the NHL.
After that if Staal has a ****ty season in the NHL then the GM who owns him might get a 50 pts season or he might get a 100 pts season, it's just retarded that there's so much randomness involved.

Let's see what others think and hope someone actually understands what I'm saying.

-- Edited by Philippe27 at 01:11, 2007-03-20

Philippe27 · Guru

Florida Panthers wrote:

Philippe27 wrote:

It would be nice though that with a Vincent Lecavalier on my team or a Sidney crosby on Buffalo who are currently tominating the NHL that I would be somewhat guaranteed say a top 10 scorer. I'm not saying that they should be #1 and #2 all the time because that's impossible I know but it also sucks that under the current ratings I can expect say a top 30 scorer, if we get lucky they'll be better. I'm not saying make them 99 and everyone is 10 pts back but somewhere between the 2 extremes would be nice
There's zero guarnatees in the NHL, why should there be guarantees in the BRHL2? in 03-04 St. Louis lead the league in points. The next year he dropped 33 points, and wasn't even a top 50 point producer. Last year in the NHL Lecavalier wasn't even a point per game player. He wasn't a top 30 player. Does that mean that in the BRHL2 he should pretty much no chance of being a top player like he is in the NHL this year? How about Briere... in his entire NHL career, before this NHL season, he had only 1 great, essentially half-season. Clearly he shouldn't be producing the NHL like he is then. Alfredsson was tied for 4th in the NHL in points last season... he's tied for 14th right now. Shouldn't he be getting more points? Maybe the best example... Eric Stall had a hundred points last year. This year he's not even on pace to hit 70.

I don't see it as wanting something between 2 extremes. I see the BRHL2 doing a pretty good job of reflecting how reality is (not with the same players doing the same as the NHL, but with under/overachievers). I see what you want as being an extreme. I fully understand why you want it, but i see it no different than the frustration a real life NHL coach has when he has underachieving players. Don't you think that the entire Hurricane organization isn't thinking to themselves "what the hell Erik Staal... where's those 15 more goals and 30+ more points you got for us last year... if you were getting them now, we wouldn't be in this position fighting for a playoff spot!" Yes yes, they had injuries especially to the defence, put the point is the same.

DUDE I knwo there are no guarantees in the NHL and if Lecavalier starts sucking in 2006-07 then he will suck on my team too but it shouldn't be next season, it should be when WE ARE IN OUR 2006-07 SEASON.
The way it is not only may I get a ****ty Lecavalier when he had 50 goals in the NHL but I may get a ****ty Lecavalier for the seasons that will follow if his production drops off in the NHL.

Philippe27 · Guru

Here's comething that's wrong in my opinion:
Joe Thornton 96 assists, 25 more than the 2nd guy.

Here are the assists leaders in BRHL2:
GP Assists
B.RICHARDS (Col) 77 69
A.YASHIN (Ana) 77 64
J.SPEZZA (Car) 77 62
J.THORNTON (Chi) 77 52

I know Thornton won't always get 75 or 80 assists because it is FHL but he's playing with Havlat, he lead the NHL by 25 assists and now he's 17 assists behind the leader in BRHL2. I don't want guarantees that this will be exactly like the NHL, it is impossible and it would be boring but it would be nice that a guy gets rewarded for making good GM decisions and it doesn't come down to what like 90% luck.

Another example:
Marian Gaborik who is arguably the fastest player in the NHL has 80 SP, Derian Hatcher has 62. You think the sim makes much of a difference between an 80 SP and a 62 SP? Barely any at all, in the NHL Gaborik will skate around Hatcher as if he was a Pee-wee player.

Jackets1 · Veteran Member

What is being asked for is MORE realism, BETTER realism. Not an exact replica or duplicate. I don't get how that is so hard to understand.

The fact is that it is an NHL rerate league. The whole premise of the league is trading for guys you think will do well in the NHL, and then getting rewarded for it, because they play well for your sim team, win you games, and make you money. That is what this league is all about.

I simply don't understand why you wouldn't want to make the players as realistic as possible. Right now, they simply don't play very realistically. Especially the goalies.

Who really cares what works in the BRHL? We're talking about the BRHL2, and being open to making improvements. I don't see how that is a bad thing. All that is being asked for and suggested is better realism, not any kind of exact science.

Jackets1 · Veteran Member

-- Edited by Jackets1 at 03:18, 2007-03-20

PHO · Senior Member

I couldn't agree more with Florida. Well put.

-- Edited by PHO at 11:15, 2007-03-20

PHO · Senior Member

I'm not sure what you want done with the re-rates? Joe Thornton has a 90PA. Should we give him 100PA rating and give the second highest assist leader 25PA?? Or maybe give him 30 assists prior to the season starting? that way it would ensure he elads the league or at least comes close to leading the league in assists? The guy should be leading the league in passing by ATT's alone but that doesn't mean he will. Sorry, I'm a little confused on how you want rectify this problem. I can understand if you think some of the att's are not accurate but in Thorntons case, they are. It's not the leagues fault that he's not getting 90 assists.