Sundin

Florida Panthers · Senior Member

RE: Sundin

Philippe27 · Guru

VanIslander wrote:

take the middle ground in this case: suspended this season, keep in organization for the future

that prevents any feeling of injustice this postseason, as i'd be pretty pissed if i felt the rules should be honoured as is and my team were to get bounced by Sundin&co.

the g.m.s are partially to blame (should read emails and ensure that caps are met before the next game, should have ridden the commish's rearend about it as game time approached)

the commishes could clean up the procedures (give indication via email or file updates, or whatever, to show that a trade has been approved)

That's a decent suggestion, I think as long as the punishment is relatively steep so that the league keeps its credibility and sticks to the rules but I still think sticking to the original decison is better.

-- Edited by Philippe27 at 22:43, 2007-02-12

Sabres · Guru

Philippe27 wrote:

Sabres wrote:

Doesn't suprise me TB that you have a hard time looking at both sides of something. Fact of the matter is its not "CLEAR" as you say. But whatever helps you sleep. I think its encouraging to see Matt GM of Columbus to look at the fairness of the situation before the situation of his team. Which would definatley benefit from PHX losing sundin.

If the decision is reversed, you have no idea what it's gonna create in the future.

I know exactly what is going to create. Its going to create a clearly defined definition of what exactly will lose a player. To be honest I can't believe how hard you guys are on this. They didnt even have a chance to bring someone down in their GM Editor program. NOw that is rediculous.

In Past i've sent notes to Eric and Bryce in emails in order to stay about the floor, but I thought i was just doing it for precautionary reasons. I thought you had 1 day before the sim to move players. And i've read over the whole rules.

PHO · Senior Member

I'll keep this short because there is no point pleading our case until were blue in the face ..... as PHO-co GM (Carm), I'm stunned that we were not even given a second to send in roster/lines via the GMEditor.

VanIslander · Guru

PHO wrote:

I'll keep this short because there is no point pleading our case until were blue in the face ..... as PHO-co GM (Carm), I'm stunned that we were not even given a second to send in roster/lines via the GMEditor.

You make a trade, send in confirmation and then send in new lines. Takes less than 10 minutes if you are used to sending in lines regularly, certainly done in 15 minutes.

Anyone who makes a trade which puts them over the cap should know that they have to do something about it. A newbie (which anyone who hasn't traded before is) might have passively awaited some indication that the trade was approved, unaware/ignorant of the standing practice in the league.

Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, and it ain't full justification for breaking rules either. But it carries some weight. The only other team not to adhere to the salary cap was AWOL in general and so wasn't in a similar plight.

Let's consider this a lesson learned: Send in new lines immediately after completing a trade, and don't wait for a possible veto which is very rare anyhow. The issue of updated files is a red herring as the email to all g.m.s explained how that procedure works.

PHO · Senior Member

To VAN/NYI
How many times do I/we have to say this....the legaue files were not updated until minutes before the sim. Unless someone is sitting at their computer every second of the day refreshing the page, we could not send in lines. And I will reiterate, I refuse to send in lines via text!!!

We knew who we were sending down to stay under the cap, but we were going to do it all in one email (roster moves AND lines). The argument seems to be "well you should have been proactive and just sent an email to the commish". No, I should have went into the gm editor with the updated league files (which apparently i would have had a 3 minute window by the sounds of it) and done all my business then.

You are completely missing the point here. I've been in several leagues, and my co-commish ran one of the more succesful online leagues, and we're well aware of the window we have to make line changes...the thing here, my friend, is that the commish had over a day to update the files and they were not updated until immediately before the sim. AGAIN, I WILL NOT SEND IN ANYTHING VIA EMAIL IF I DONT HAVE THE UPDATED LEAGUE FILES. WHAT GOOD IS IT IF I SEND IN AN EMAIL TELLING HIM TO SEND A PLAYER DOWN AND INSERT BRISEBOIS TO THE LINEUP, WHEN I WANT TO SHUFFLE THE LINES???

Again, I don't expect the commish to live on the computer and convenience me, but I'd expect the same in return, especially considering I doled out money for this. When you charge people for a league, I'm afraid to say it, you expect some sort of service to make your life easier. Usually I'd say that the commish is doing us a favour at being so proactive, but when it's a pay league, you come to expect some sort of service that allows you to do what you gotta do. SO please drop this argument that we "broke the law" and were irresponsible. I'm quite sick of it frankly.

And one last thing, yes we did win the game that we so violently "broke the law" in, but take a look at the lineup, and the player we traded for did not play, so there was absolutely NO advantage at us playing over the cap this game. I know you can't be too lenient on the cap rule, but in this instance where we had absolutely no window to submit our lines like modern-day gm's would (via gm editor) as opposed to sending them in a notepad text file (which is what I'm assuming you'd like from us) it just makes no sense.

TO FLORIDA:

I do agree with the "I do not read emails" is a weak excuse and I would never use that. However, we have been given a rulebook verbatim reply to many of our questions to the league. So if the league is going to send out an extremely important email (which I do read, but quite honestly months later it is forgotten) then wouldn't it just make sense to put this in the rulebook if it were so important? I do not keep a seperate folder for BRHL news in my email program. Maybe I should start, but thats a seperate debate. If it is THAT important an email, then those rules should be put in the rulebook. The first and ONLY point of reference for anything questionable is the rulebook. I do not want to have to go to 4 different sources to get my answer.

-- Edited by PHO at 07:38, 2007-02-13

PHO · Senior Member

We've read and re-read this infamous email, and it is even more vague than the rule itself:

3. I put trades through before I sim. 2 reasons, to keep form with if a team needed to make a trade to get under / over cap requirements. And, if that player were to get injured in the game prior to the deal, then it could screw it up. So if you send lines in, then make a trade. The lines are likely to get auto'd. Please try to stay on top of this, as I will do the same.

HERE LIES THE PROBLEM. WHAT THE HELL DOES THIS EVEN MEAN. WE DIDN’T GET TO SEND IN ANY LINES BECAUSE THE LEAGUE FILES WERE NOT UPDATED. I WOULD AGREE WITH EVERYONE IF WE SENT IN OUR LINES, THE TRADE WAS MADE AND WE THEN DID NOT SEND IN OUR LINES. WAIT, THAT DOESN’T EVEN MAKE SENSE. THE LEAGUE FILES WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN UPDATED ANYWAYS!

Where does it say anything about an email????

Sens · Guru

I have done my best to stay out of this, but after four pages of the same excuses I have to let my feelings be known. From what I have seen posted this basically comes down to the files not being updated and yes Eric might not have updated the files(I don't know), and that has happened to me before, but there is a simple solution to this problem, why couldn't of you just sent an e-mail into the league? Something like hey Eric/Bryce the league files aren't updated I'm going to be over the cap and I would like to fix it. At that point even if the league files didn't get updated in time as far as I'm concerned you had made an attempt to fix the problem. Being lazy and saying I'm not going to take 30 seconds to send in a simple e-mail isn't an excuse, you didn't have to send in lines manually but a little effort showing you knew you were over the cap and wanted to correct it is all it would take.

PHO · Senior Member

I (Dan) will field this one. Good question Sens.

As stated before, we thought the deal never went through for one reason or another. The deal was sent in on Friday, nothing was done on the rosters or league files until 1 minute before the sim. Brisebois wasn't a priority that we needed to have him on our team for the week-end sim. He was a fill in for our 5th d-man, hardly a priority. We figured it would all get cleared up sooner or later. There really wasn't a problem in our eyes until we found out that Brisebois was indeed added to our roster and we did not have any time whats so ever to change our line up.

My question to you is why would we need to send in an e-mail if we didn't think the deal went through? And doesn't everyone think the league files and rosters should always be updated?

BryceBruins · BRHL2 Co-Commish

Again,

- The trade was sent in AFTER Fridays sim, files WERE updated Friday night, but the deal wasn't sent in till afterwards.

- There rarely is an update Saturday as everyone knows that Eric doesnt sim that day, their is no league activity that day.

- The next updated league files, as normal would have been after Sundays sim.

- The fact that Saturday was between games is irrelevant as it has been stated numerous times that nothing occurs on Saturday.

This thread is locked, I'm sorting through the BOD responses and a verdict will be up shortly.

PHO · Senior Member

Furthermore,

We are not trying to make excuses, we really are not. Fair is fair and we don't think we were in the wrong. We firmly believe that we were not getting Brisebois for the Sunday sim. If we knew all it would have taken to make our moves was send in an e-mail then we definitely would have done it. But what move was i suppose to make if my thinking was my trade for Brisebois didn't even go through?