Sundin

Pittsburgh GM · Senior Member

RE: Sundin

BryceBruins · BRHL2 Co-Commish

OK lots of good points for both arguments, we will submit this to the BOD and come to a decision that way. Everyone's opinion has been appreciated, and it will result in some "Rewording" in the rules. A final decision on Sundin will come later tonight or early tomorrow.

Bryce

WildJamie · Senior Member

Wow, 3 pages of posts and it is all civil debating? Congrats to everyone who has put their 2 bits in on this subject... this is by far the best thread we have seen this year in this league, and I think if nothing else it will contribute to the betterment of the league for next season and years to come.
I do think there are many questionable rules, and I do think that we have many smart GMs (and some dumb ones :]), that can come up with great ways of modifying and rewording the rulebook.
This league has the potential to work very well, but I think more than most leagues, the rulebook will have to be long and carefully worded to make things work.

As for the Sundin situation, I do not have an opinion either way on how it should go. But I do strongly agree that the outright loss of your best player is an extreme penalty that needs to be looked at. (At worst, suspension for one season of your top player would be more appropriate, especially in a league where you have to pay your next $50 to get that player back on your team the following season).

VanIslander · Guru

WildJamie wrote:
At worst, suspension for one season of your top player would be more appropriate

I like it for strategy: keep your superstar to re-rate next season but free up cap room now. A guy like Guerin, who'll re-rate way upward, could be "suspended" for a season to free up cap room for a better performing now UFA. Likewise Detroit's top salary Holik could be put aside by purposely violating the rule. My point is: not always much of a punishment to a g.m. thinking beyond the current season.

The severity of the penalty - of losing the top player completely forever - is a good thing! It's kept 28 of us g.m.s in line!

It's the conditions under which it is applied that could use some clarifying, re-ordering (e.g., have a time period and a notification of trade acceptance prior to having to meet the salary restrictions).

-- Edited by VanIslander at 20:11, 2007-02-12

PHO · Senior Member

Hey all, thanks for all the open discussion. This is why we have a message board. Looking back at my e-mails and posts thorughout the day (I got no work done whatsoever) I may have come across a little bitter and with reason but I really hate this happened. It wasn't our intention to cheat the system. I don't want to be dubbed the whiners of the league b/c we have really enjoyed our time here. Even though Bryce and the PHO co-GM's haven't seen eye to eye on this issue, we can accept and respect the fact that he will bring this issue up with the BOD and a decision will be made either way. Whatever the decision is, I just hope changes are made to the rulebook and the way trades are handled because I think down the road more and more of this kind of stuff is going to happen. Maybe an open discussion would have been a good idea prior to Sundin's suspension. Just a thought.

Bryce, keep us posted.

Dan

Sabres · Guru

Trust me you wont be called the whiner of the league. If many other people were in your situation they would be a lot more bitter IMO. I am a advocate of keeping the rules tight, but when there is any reasonable doubt that he honestly may have interpreted the rules differently, then i think we should give him a pass. Lets be honest...Do i want another UFA up for next year, YES..But do i also want this league to be as fair as possible..YES. I think for this particulare situation a little Grace is in order, and a little clarification in the rules.

Theres my 2 cents.
Luke

WildJamie · Senior Member

Well, I didn't say highest paid player, I said highest rated player. But some tweaking along those lines would be reasonable I think. I just don't see the point of crippling a team for the next season. It is the season they are in that they should pay for.
Maybe suspend the top rated player and fine the team the amount of their salary, or they still have to take the cap hit or something....

VanIslander · Guru

BryceBruins wrote:

OK lots of good points for both arguments, we will submit this to the BOD and come to a decision that way.

Whatever their decision, it'll be just, as there are good reasons to enforce the rule strictly in this case or to be lenient given the circumstances.

Philippe27 · Guru

Everything was clear in the rulebook and e-mail that was sent at the beginning of the season. If the league is leneant in this case it'll never stop. I know it sucks and I'd be freaking pissed if I lost Lecavalier to UFA but Phoenix GM has no body but himself to blame. League needs to stand firm and stick by the rules because if it's leneant here then it'll never stop.

VanIslander · Guru

Philippe27 wrote:

Everything was clear in the rulebook and e-mail that was sent at the beginning of the season. If the league is leneant in this case it'll never stop. I know it sucks and I'd be freaking pissed if I lost Lecavalier to UFA but Phoenix GM has no body but himself to blame. League needs to stand firm and stick by the rules because if it's leneant here then it'll never stop.

that's exactly my fear

if it is fair either way then consider the longer term interests of the league as a whole

whatever happens, this is an opportunity to clear up procedures and make improvements to keep getting better

Sabres · Guru

Doesn't suprise me TB that you have a hard time looking at both sides of something. Fact of the matter is its not "CLEAR" as you say. But whatever helps you sleep. I think its encouraging to see Matt GM of Columbus to look at the fairness of the situation before the situation of his team. Which would definatley benefit from PHX losing sundin.

PHO · Senior Member

...

-- Edited by PHO at 21:56, 2007-02-12

Philippe27 · Guru

Sabres wrote:

Doesn't suprise me TB that you have a hard time looking at both sides of something. Fact of the matter is its not "CLEAR" as you say. But whatever helps you sleep. I think its encouraging to see Matt GM of Columbus to look at the fairness of the situation before the situation of his team. Which would definatley benefit from PHX losing sundin.

It is clear and rules much less clear than this have been applied and I was told those were clear.

If you think I'm taking this position because it benefits me or whatever, I don't really give a damn, you don't know me.
It takes balls to be a commish and Eric and Bryce have done a great job applying the rules strictly so far and they have to continue doing so because it is a money league. If the decision is reversed, you have no idea what it's gonna create in the future, I have been a commish and as soon as you're leneant in a situation where everything was explained in an e-mail and the rulebook the league is in trouble.

PHO · Senior Member

Nick, the angry co gm here....

Florida, I can honestly say I respect your opinion, because you're one of the few people who I agreed with at the beginning of the season regarding pm's, and choice of communication.

I appreciate what you're saying, and I do see your point...but I can HONESTLY say that all 3 of us co-gms were looking regularly at the rosters for an update, at which point we'd make a move. Bryce has told us, and rightfully so, that we could have sent in a move such as "send down player x, and keep brisebois up"

I see what he is saying, however, we also had actual line changes to send in on top of cap saving moves. I refuse to send in lines via text. That's what the gm editor is for. I don't expect Bryce to make this league his living and update the site every 10 minutes, but I expect him to have the same expectation of us. We did our part in continuously checking the site for the update so that we could make the proper moves. If it makes anyone feel better, take the damn 2 points against the Wings away. I know rules are rules, but in my mind we did not break any. I know how bitter I sound, and it's unfortunate, but I am puzzled/baffled, etc.

Anyways, I've spent way too much time on this topic, and I appreciate everyone's comments, whether I agree or disagree with them.

VanIslander · Guru

take the middle ground in this case: suspended this season, keep in organization for the future

that prevents any feeling of injustice this postseason, as i'd be pretty pissed if i felt the rules should be honoured as is and my team were to get bounced by Sundin&co.

the g.m.s are partially to blame (should read emails and ensure that caps are met before the next game, should have ridden the commish's rearend about it as game time approached)

the commishes could clean up the procedures (give indication via email or file updates, or whatever, to show that a trade has been approved)