Is This Deal for Real?

Habs · Senior Member

Is This Deal for Real?

Habs · Senior Member

To SanJose: Antoine Vermette

To NYRangers: SJ 2007 Rnd 1, SJ 2007 Rnd 2

Through this trade in to the mix too. Seems a bit much, and SJ isn't even a contender. Seems odd that they would trade away what should be some high picks

Florida Panthers · Senior Member

Habs wrote:

To Toronto: Antero Niitymaki, Michael Ryder, Tomas Holmstrom

To LosAngeles: Curtis Joseph, Mark Bell, Scott Walker, NYI 2007 Rnd 6, NYI 2007 Rnd 7

Lets be honest, one of the worst trades I've seen in a while. A struggling LA continues to load up on old UFA while trading away young talent. Since when did rebuilding mean trading for old guys with one year left on there deals.

Does anyone else think this one deserves a veto.

Well... since you asked. I'll reiterate my view on trade vetos...

None of the players are having good seasons, and it looks to be a bad deal on the part of LA. By all means, look into why LA made it, but if there's no indication of cheating (e.g. dumping players to help out another team), then teams should be free to run their teams as they see fit, and make whatever deals they want.

Of course, I'm fully aware of what the league view is and how things are seen, but you asked!

Florida Panthers · Senior Member

Habs wrote:

To SanJose: Antoine Vermette

To NYRangers: SJ 2007 Rnd 1, SJ 2007 Rnd 2

Through this trade in to the mix too. Seems a bit much, and SJ isn't even a contender. Seems odd that they would trade away what should be some high picks

I wouldn't even look into that one at all. There's nothing close to calling that some hugely lopsided deal. At the very least there's easy arguements to make why both sides made it... Vermette's a guy that's improving every year he plays, is on pace to put up numbers much higher than last years, is still pretty young, and will likely get a pretty reasonable contract this time around. 2nd round picks, usually no matter how good, are still most of the time going to be shots in the dark as to whether the player turns out. Sure the first rounder might be a good first rounder, and the added fact that we're a year behind the real NHL is a bonus when figuring out who to take, but it could still be years before that player that's taken pans out, if at all.

Habs · Senior Member

Florida Panthers wrote:

Well... since you asked. I'll reiterate my view on trade vetos...

None of the players are having good seasons, and it looks to be a bad deal on the part of LA. By all means, look into why LA made it, but if there's no indication of cheating (e.g. dumping players to help out another team), then teams should be free to run their teams as they see fit, and make whatever deals they want.

Of course, I'm fully aware of what the league view is and how things are seen, but you asked!

I understand what you are saying, but who is gonna want to take over LA when this guy quites because his team is so bad. I think we need to start looking out for the league's best interest. The SJ deal on the other hand makes zero sense to me and is probably worse the the LA one.

Habs · Senior Member

Florida Panthers wrote:

I wouldn't even look into that one at all. There's nothing close to calling that some hugely lopsided deal. At the very least there's easy arguements to make why both sides made it... Vermette's a guy that's improving every year he plays, is on pace to put up numbers much higher than last years, is still pretty young, and will likely get a pretty reasonable contract this time around. 2nd round picks, usually no matter how good, are still most of the time going to be shots in the dark as to whether the player turns out. Sure the first rounder might be a good first rounder, and the added fact that we're a year behind the real NHL is a bonus when figuring out who to take, but it could still be years before that player that's taken pans out, if at all.

These picks won't be a shot in the dark, even if you know next to nothing, those picks are gonna be high, and guys like Kessel and Staal already playing and have some success. They can be on your roster next year

Florida Panthers · Senior Member

Habs wrote:

I understand what you are saying, but who is gonna want to take over LA when this guy quites because his team is so bad. I think we need to start looking out for the league's best interest. The SJ deal on the other hand makes zero sense to me and is probably worse the the LA one.

Which I fully understand, and am aware that's the league view as well. I personally think that if I pay my $50, I should be entitled to run my team as i see fit and make the trades I want to make (again, as long as there's no indication of cheating, player dumping...).

I also fully understand the concern about "who will want the team"... but that's giving more weight to "what might happen" over the reality that someone DID pay their dues to have the team now.

I suppose we'll have to disagree on the SJ deal as I see absolutely no reason to even look into that one, let alone actually veto it. I can easily see why someone would want Vermette. Did he give up too much to get him? Maybe, maybe not... I see that as a matter that is easily debatable, and even if everyone did agree that the answer is yes, he gave up too much, all that means is that he gave up too much, not that it's so far to the extreme that the league should interfere.

VanIslander · Guru

Habs wrote:

To SanJose: Antoine Vermette

To NYRangers: SJ 2007 Rnd 1, SJ 2007 Rnd 2

Through this trade in to the mix too. Seems a bit much, and SJ isn't even a contender. Seems odd that they would trade away what should be some high picks

Vermette is a 24 year old with 19 pts in 27 NHL games on pace for 33 goals!!

That is worth a 1st and 2nd... at least it's ballpark, especially given how many prospects are hit and miss.

Debates are good as long as they don't feed negative attitudes and whining behaviour. This league has not become a safe forum for open healthy discussion.... not yet.

I feel like I should wstop writing cover page stories and just try to get healthy, postive discussion board threads going. You know, have fun!

Habs · Senior Member

Florida Panthers wrote:

Which I fully understand, and am aware that's the league view as well. I personally think that if I pay my $50, I should be entitled to run my team as i see fit and make the trades I want to make (again, as long as there's no indication of cheating, player dumping...).

I also fully understand the concern about "who will want the team"... but that's giving more weight to "what might happen" over the reality that someone DID pay their dues to have the team now.

I suppose we'll have to disagree on the SJ deal as I see absolutely no reason to even look into that one, let alone actually veto it. I can easily see why someone would want Vermette. Did he give up too much to get him? Maybe, maybe not... I see that as a matter that is easily debatable, and even if everyone did agree that the answer is yes, he gave up too much, all that means is that he gave up too much, not that it's so far to the extreme that the league should interfere.

Fair argument, we’ll leave it at that.

Habs · Senior Member

VanIslander wrote:

Vermette is a 24 year old with 19 pts in 27 NHL games on pace for 33 goals!!

That is worth a 1st and 2nd... at least it's ballpark, especially given how many prospects are hit and miss.

Debates are good as long as they don't feed negative attitudes and whining behaviour. This league has not become a safe forum for open healthy discussion.... not yet.

I feel like I should wstop writing cover page stories and just try to get healthy, postive discussion board threads going. You know, have fun!

I don't agree, remember that these picks could be the 3rd and 33rd overall picks. But everyone has there own opinion. What do you think about the LA trade though?

BryceBruins · BRHL2 Co-Commish

San Jose deal is fine, all dependsa on a persons perspective on players-picks.....

We are looking at teh Toronto-LA deal......no more posts are nessecary, we will keep everyone informed....

bryce

Florida Panthers · Senior Member

Habs wrote:

Florida Panthers wrote:

These picks won't be a shot in the dark, even if you know next to nothing, those picks are gonna be high, and guys like Kessel and Staal already playing and have some success. They can be on your roster next year

I said the 2nd round pick would be a shot in the dark most likely, and I certainly still think it will.

You're right Staal and Kessel are playing in the NHL and can be on the roster... and? Both players have 9 points right now, and are getting limited ice time. Vermette's got more than double those points and plays more. In all likelyhood, Vermette will be rated quite a bit higher than either next season. Vermette will only be 24 next season, far from being some senior. Maybe SJ wants a young player like that, who's further along in the development, and who he thinks can be a great player... Plus, in all likelyhood, Kessel and Staal are not going to rated to be impact players in the BRHL2. Perhaps their potential is higher, but given their ice time and play so far this year, even if they reach that potential, we're looking at 2 BRHL2 seasons from now before they make an impact in the league.

Given that SJ just traded away picks for the guy, I would say the intention is to move UP the standings this year, so realistically in all llikelyhood, neither Staal nor Kessel will be available with those picks (certainly possible, but I would say quite unlikely). No matter how good the others maybe doing where they are, until they hit NHL, who knows how they'll do.

I'm not saying I think that SJ got a great deal. I'm not even saying that I think he got a GOOD deal. I'm not saying he got a bad deal either. I'm simply saying that I can easily see why he made the deal he did.

San Jose · Senior Member

Looks like I will have to explain my logic behind the SJ1 for Vermette trade.

Alex Ovechkin has had two major injuries so far this season which resulted in him only having 9 games played. He is due to return in 3 weeks. Upon his return, I expect the team to win more often and push for a playoff spot (as dificult is it may seem).

I dont expect the SJ1 to be a top3 pick, if I did I would not of traded it away.

We cannot understimate Vermette's value is FHLs. He is young, inexpensive, good DF and on pace for 33Gs in the NHL. Overall, Vermette fits in with the other young NHLers Ive been building around (Ovechkin, Parise, Meszaros, Horton, Koivu, Weiss, Seabrook etc..)

Another GM commented, "He(SJ) isnt even a contender"... Well, I feel that I am closer to becoming a contender today then I was yesterday. Its not like i dealt the SJ1 for a 35year old rental. Vermette will be a shark for a long time.

The SJ2nd was thrown into the deal at the last minute as the NYR-GM had concerns that the SJ1 would fall out of the top5 and he wanted to be compensated for taking on the risk. Which is fine and I agreed.

Overall, there are 50+ games left in the regular season and Ovechkin will finally be healthy soon and I am hopping to climb in the standings and make the playoffs.

So in other words, dealing a potential #13 pick and #43 picks for a young two-way 30goal scorer felt like the right move to make.

In part, I agree with the critics, if the SJ1 is a top 5 pick I have lost the deal. However, if it isnt I feel very comfortable with the move.

It will be fun to see what happens as the NYR and I have both taken risks in this trade... by hey,, thats hockey!!

Philippe27 · Guru

I actually think San Jose wins that deal, Vermette is a great player and with the 1st there is no guarantee with the top 5 and if it is snyone but Jordan Staal the pick won't have an impact for at least 1-2 more seasons.

VanIslander · Guru

Philippe27 wrote:

I actually think San Jose wins that deal, Vermette is a great player and with the 1st there is no guarantee with the top 5 .

Yeah, possibly the next Patrik Stefan, Alexandre Daigle, Andrew Ladd, Pavel Brendl, Tim Connolly, etcetera....

even a Top-5 pick isn't any assurance to be as good as Vermette!!!!!

and with the risk of injury or development problems to high first round picks, and the hit-and-miss nature of second round picks, makes productive Vermette all the more golden. He is the sure thing. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, despite the pie in the sky thinking of many prospect wellwishers.