Retirees and counting against the cap

Hawks_G · Guru

Retirees and counting against the cap

Philippe27 · Guru

Hawks_G wrote:

Petteri Nummelin selection got me to thinking. And this seems like a good place to discuss it. NHLCBA: If a player signs a contract at 35 years or older any status for the player (Playing, minors, retired) will count against the cap. So if Nummellin comes over at 34 years old. Plays one year, signs a deal the year after in the BRHL2. The entire length of his contract should count against the cap. In the rules it states anyone 30 years old or older that signs their first contract will be signed for four years. If he plays one year and retires at 36, then that is three years of retired Nummelin that will count against the cap. Something to consider.

That would be cool but this is done in the NHL to discourage teams from signing older players to long-term contracts. I think we should use that rule but I don't think it's fair if you're forced to sign the player for 4 years that he would count against the cap for all 4 years.

Hawks_G · Guru

Philippe27 wrote:

That would be cool but this is done in the NHL to discourage teams from signing older players to long-term contracts. I think we should use that rule but I don't think it's fair if you're forced to sign the player for 4 years that he would count against the cap for all 4 years.

My job isn't to implement policy. My job is to make sure that issues that are involved with the NHLCBA are discussed and resolved.

It was stated that we would be following the NHLCBA to a T if it can be done within the confines of the BRHL2. My position on this is that the BRHL should probably change the automatic contracts to the same as the NHL CBA.

VanIslander · Guru

Wish I was aware of such a harsh rule.

My team has drafted several old players who played in Europe last year.

This would undermine my franchise's efforts to remain competitive despite an aged roster.

Having a player on the farm team count against the cap??????? That's contrary to OUR collective bargaining agreement!!!!

The NHL doesn't have AUTOMATIC 4-year contracts fro thirtysomethings, so we shouldn't be punished for having it take effect!!

VanIslander · Guru

Our fantasy league has plenty of differences with the NHL to help g.m.s decide to DRAFT and keep veterans.

Not only is there automatic four year contracts for thirtysomethings, but we have Mario Lemieux TAG, Kevin Lowe TAG and Dave Semenko TAG which helps g.m.s sign and keep veterans.

Suddenly we're going to turn around and adopt a policy that would penalize g.m.s who have already drafted veterans?

(I get annoyed when I think this was suggested by a g.m. who drafted youth.)

Hawks_G · Guru

Jay.

1. The rules were in place before the draft. Suggesting someone did this after the fact is wrong.

2. The rules were in place before the draft, so any miscalculations you might have made in drafting were done because you didn't read the rules in enough detail.

3. If the guy is over 35 when he signs his contract is when it matters.

4. We aren't adopting a policy(It is already in place), I am pointing out that since we are following the NHLCBA as much as possible, these things have to be considered and worked on before the season, so GM's like yourself can work your strategy within the CBA.

5. No rule is made to screw someone, it is made for the best interests of the league, and better to provide clarity before the season, than after. Would you like to know now if this specific instance is going to be used or some waiver implemented so it doesn't apply?

Well of course you do...so calm down.

VanIslander · Guru

It is NOT in the rules.

Ihave pointed out relevant rules in this league, rules regarding veterans that DIFFER from the NHL's, in order to HELP g.m.s sign and keep veterans.

PLEASE specify where in our rules you got this oppressive (not to your team) interpretation?

VanIslander · Guru

Let's not mix up fact with interpretation.

And I've shown that the rule you interpret as applying is actually CONTRARY to the spirit of the rules, and that other rules regarding veterans help a g.m. sign and retain them, but your interpretation does not.

Hawks_G · Guru

VanIslander wrote:

It is NOT in the rules.

Ihave pointed out relevant rules in this league, rules regarding veterans that DIFFER from the NHL's, in order to HELP g.m.s sign and keep veterans.

PLEASE specify where in our rules you got this oppressive (not to your team) interpretation?

When it was said that we will run as close to the NHL CBA as possible. Whether or not Bryce or Eric put that right in the rules, it was expressed to everyone.

The issue brought up is in the NHLCBA and needs clarity. There is an NHLCBA/BRHL2 forum for a reason.

If we weren't going to make our rulings based on the NHLCBA there really wouldn't be a need for an NHLCBA forum.

Although I think you are overreacting.

Hawks_G · Guru

Listen. It is in the NHL CBA. So thereby we have to clarify if the auto 4 year contracts should apply to players like Nummelin.

If it does, then the reasoning is that we are trying to keep the BRHL2 as close to the NHLCBA as possible.

There is no interpretation. The only interpretation is to whether the NHLCBA is contradictory to the BRHL2 rules. If that is the case, then the BOD is going to rule one way or another.

You didn't know this league was going to try to stick as close to the NHLCBA as possible? Then that is something you have to discuss with Eric and Bryce.

VanIslander · Guru

I have a veteran team. And I'm going to do my best to make that team competitive in the medium and long term as well as short term. That new rule you propose would handicap my team in the medium term.

And to quote Philippe27: "I don't think it's fair if you're forced to sign the player for 4 years that he would count against the cap for all 4 years." EXACTLY. Are we going to change an EXPLICITLY stated rule just to enact an interpretation?

This league is NOT exactly built on NHL rules, especially with the aforementioned TAGs and four year signing rule for veterans.

VanIslander · Guru

Hawks_G wrote:

The only interpretation is to whether the NHLCBA is contradictory to the BRHL2 rules.

The commishes will know the right thing to do.

VanIslander · Guru

Here is what precipitated George's bringing up of this rule/interpretation:

On HFBoards George Bachul, hawks g.m., is doing a very nice round-by-round analysis of his team's reasoning and picks. he wrote:

"Sometimes during a draft some GMs go into what I consider a snooze mode. I thought that by far, Round 24 had the worst quality selections.

Eric Cairns
Jeff Woywitka
Petteri Nummelin
Danny Richmond
Yan Stastny
Nathan Paetsch
Jarkko Ruutu
Mika Noronen
Niklas Sundstrom"

After he wrote that, I posted a reply:

"Columbus STOLE Petteri Nummelin two rounds before I was gonna (though I had heemed and hummed about getting him earlier). The veteran blueliner has a stellar track record and, yeah yeah, still has to prove it in the NHL, but he will get the opportunity in Minnesota to quarterback the powerplay and from what I've seen and heard, he'll put up 30-40 pts for a defensman, making for a pretty good re-rate for one's third pairing and second powerplay unit... I'm a believer, and you obviously are not."

Then suddenly that got George thinking of possible rule applications, which indeed would justify his overlooking of Nummelin, even if he has a good season. Way to go George!

-- Edited by VanIslander at 16:06, 2006-08-15

Hawks_G · Guru

There are a few additions, because we can't take into account the fact that Pronger's wife doesn't like Edmonton.

We can't take into account that a guy loves a city and would sign less to stay.

The spirit of the rules in this league are to remain as close to the NHLCBA as possible, or so I was told.

There will always be things that have to be mediated, which I have tried to express several times in this thread, which is why we have this forum.

This is the first instance where a NHLCBA issue has to be discussed. And if you don't want to have this particular problem, then don't sign 35 year olds to long term deals.

But this is why we have this forum, to figure these things out before someone signs a 35 year old to a long term deal.

Hawks_G · Guru

Then suddenly that got George thinking of possible rule applications, which indeed would justify his overlooking of Nummelin, even if he has a good season. Way to go George!

-- Edited by VanIslander at 16:06, 2006-08-15

Are you for real?

You think that this being brought up has anything to do with justifying not selecting a guy?

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

1. I have been doing this for a long time. I have run leagues for quite some time. When the rules are not defined, people use loopholes, and then the guys that follow the rules call them on it, then they get pissed off and whine (Not unlike this thread) that they got screwed. Unless you are a proponent of someone calling a GM on it when they have no chance to react to it, and they have to take the cap hit before the contract is signed. Might as well wait until the guy is retired before we address this.

2. I couldn't care a less about drafting a 34 year old Euro. To me it is silly, to you and another GM, obviously a guy that has never played in the NHL and is about to come over for the first time appeals to you. Take a poll. Like most GMs aren't going to draft 34 year old, never been to the NHL Euros.

3. Bringing it up is a function I agreed to with Bryce and Eric. I have a working knowledge of the CBA, and whereas it applies to the BRHL2, I agreed to bring up issues for discussion, specifically so they can be addressed prior to being an issue.

My team is never an issue when dealing with league business. I don't run the league, I don't mediate it, I assist Eric and Bryce when necessary. Your point made me research the player.(Possibly for me to say "Good job" because he wasn't on my radar, and maybe I had missed someone. To tell you the truth I knew he was a Euro, but didn't even know much about him until you pointed it out.)

So you pointing it out only did two things, make me look up a guy, and remember that there is a cap issue for older players. Hence bringing it up when necessary.

Once you get to know Bryce, Eric, Me and other guys, you will know there is no conspiracy theorists needed. Smooth running of the league matters more than anyone's individually run team.

You took this personally. You are wrong when you think it has something to do with me or my team.

Let Bryce and Eric handle it.