Discussions on what is a deal and isn't a deal.

Hawks_G · Guru

Discussions on what is a deal and isn't a deal.

HOTLANTA · Guru

if a team has worked out a deal threw a e-mail or an icq and has sent out other offers sometimes multiple e-mails or pm's or whatever to multiple teams on the same guy.. if a team has one or two deals come together at same time agreeing in *principle* to the deal with numerous teams isnt it that g.m's choice to make a deal?

Hawks_G · Guru

HOTLANTA wrote:

if a team has worked out a deal threw a e-mail or an icq and has sent out other offers sometimes multiple e-mails or pm's or whatever to multiple teams on the same guy.. if a team has one or two deals come together at same time agreeing in *principle* to the deal with numerous teams isnt it that g.m's choice to make a deal?

We can differ on this opinion. If a GM says. It is a deal, email the league and CC to me, then to me, that would mean that it is completed and to all other GMs, all other potential deals are off.

But Kirk, don't defend yourself in this thread, that isn't what it is for. Forget about the personal issue and talk about generalities.

In my opinion, if a GM says to me "OK, done deal." it is at that moment a verbal contract.

If a GM says to me "Ok, done deal. Send it to the league and CC Me." and then doesn't send it in, I feel like I have been slighted.

In my opinion a team that agrees to and then backs out of a deal, I think that there should be some repercussions. Maybe nothing huge, but there should be an agreed to penalty or compensation.

If we don't do something..."Ok, it's a deal, send it in." means nothing really. And we don't want that. Some GMs will back out of deals more often because there is no consequence.

This one is a tough one, and wouldn't be surprised if we had the "it isn't enforceable." and have to do nothing.

Panthers · Senior Member

I think there are two different things here:

1) When is a deal official? When it is sent to the league by both parties and not before that. As far as the league is concerned, there is no trade and therefore no penalties.

2) What is the right/proper/moral thing for an individual to do? Once you agree to a deal, send it in and live with it. Also, if there are other offers out, let the GMs know early on. And if you have an offer out there, and another GM makes an offer you want to take, let the first GM know. This is just simple common courtesy.

HOTLANTA · Guru

Hawks_G wrote:

Before this gets shut down by the Moderator, bear with me here....I see the issue that exists between Colorado and Atlanta. That isn't what I want to debate here.

Now guys, before posting here is the way this thread has to go.

1. Do not mention any other team names.
2. Don't call anyone down or berate anyone.
3. Discuss the principles, not the people.

So here is the goal of this discussion. What are the answers to these four questions?

What is a deal and not a deal?

Should there be a penalty for a GM agreeing to a deal and changing his mind after he says "Deal."?

Since we have seen this happen several times, if we don't administer some policy on this issue, will it become epidemic?

We all agree that it is bad form, but do we do nothing because most of the time it turns into "He said, she said."?

If we keep the discussion intelligent and positive and solution oriented, then it will be a good discussion. (And the mod might leave it alone ?)

i wasnt in any way talking or defending my own team george those are just my opinions..

ps why would u think the board mod would shut common discussion down? personally i think he might be offspring of hitler.

Ianintheam · Senior Member

Panthers wrote:

I think there are two different things here:

1) When is a deal official? When it is sent to the league by both parties and not before that. As far as the league is concerned, there is no trade and therefore no penalties...

I feel a deal is a deal at conception. I am pro-life.

I don't believe in Pro-choice. Once an agreement is in place, it is a deal. No women's right to chose here.

If you have outstanding offers with other GM's on that player, maybe to possibly get a better deal, tough ****. Wait to pull the trigger on the first deal then, untill you are sure that you are 100% certain it is what you want.

Some will call it trying to get the best deal possible, but I call it reckless.

ColoradoGM · Senior Member

If a Deal is sent to GM (2) from GM (1) and the email states: Confirm, CC me when you send it into the board.
Well now, the board has the actual email when GM (2) sends it to the league. GM (2) is wondering why the deal is taking so long (thinks maybe it is the weekend, maybe someones computer was down)...a few days go by and then gets an email from another GM (3) stating that he 'feels bad, but didn't mean to get in the middle of this whole thing, but a deal has gone down with Player X etc....'

Now, seems to me that GM 1 offered a deal, verbal, email confirmation.
GM 2 confirms...this is a deal.
GM 3 makes an offer (or recieves an offer) , even if it was a week before, and is either away, or pondering the decision...He did not act on it, and therefore this deal should be axed.

It is hard to enforce a penalty, but how about a level of Class?

Sens · Guru

I think once you've said "deal send it in and CC me" it's a deal, and if a GM backs out of that it is incredibly classless and I think in the long run will hurt you with other GM's around the league.

I know in the future IF I'm talking trade with a GM that has done this to another GM I will think twice about completing a deal with him since I won't know when he is serious about trading with me or if he has something he likes better on the back burner and will back out at the last second.

Hawks_G · Guru

ColoradoGM wrote:

If a Deal is sent to GM (2) from GM (1) and the email states: Confirm, CC me when you send it into the board.
Well now, the board has the actual email when GM (2) sends it to the league. GM (2) is wondering why the deal is taking so long (thinks maybe it is the weekend, maybe someones computer was down)...a few days go by and then gets an email from another GM (3) stating that he 'feels bad, but didn't mean to get in the middle of this whole thing, but a deal has gone down with Player X etc....'

Now, seems to me that GM 1 offered a deal, verbal, email confirmation.
GM 2 confirms...this is a deal.
GM 3 makes an offer (or recieves an offer) , even if it was a week before, and is either away, or pondering the decision...He did not act on it, and therefore this deal should be axed.

It is hard to enforce a penalty, but how about a level of Class?

Ross, talk about the issue, not your feeling about one instance. We need to tighten this thing up so it doesn't happen much in the future.

I would like to see it that when a GM says "It's a deal. Send it." At that point you have a verbal contract to a deal. If a reneg comes after that point, a penalty of some sort is incurred. A 3rd round draft choice in compensation? A 500K fine? Arbitrator makes first deal go through?

I don't know, but would like to see something happen...because this is at least three times I have heard of it in this league.

HOTLANTA · Guru

george this isnt meant to be confrontational at all but how is what ur doing.. (tryng to bring up a league issue on board and get a possible rule put in "3rd round pik compensation, or 500k fine" how is it any different than from when either myself, aaron, rex, luke, joe bring up an issue it is called sour grapes? like isnt this playing both sides of fence by u?

Sabres_Luke · Guru

In this case it's easy to tell that that ATL backed out; however, in most instances the team doesnt go ahead and post on the board and then back out. THere is no way to fine the offense because in most situations its an msn "deal", and

"Luca says: (3:00:47 PM)
Deal. Send it in"

Is hardly concrete proof in the court of law..er BRHL2

Hawks_G · Guru

HOTLANTA wrote:

george this isnt meant to be confrontational at all but how is what ur doing.. (tryng to bring up a league issue on board and get a possible rule put in "3rd round pik compensation, or 500k fine" how is it any different than from when either myself, aaron, rex, luke, joe bring up an issue it is called sour grapes? like isnt this playing both sides of fence by u?

What I am doing is trying to figure out if there is something that can be done when a GM backs out of a deal. It isn't about you, it isn't about others that have done it before.

I want to start policy, not go back on anything a GM has done. As far as I know, there is no policy, but in the future, if someone does this, I would like to see them have some consequence.

I don't care about sides. My side is what is best for the league. Backing out of deals after they have been agreed to by both parties isn't best for the league.

Even if nothing is accomplished, we have the talk and everyone gets to voice their opinion on when a deal should be considered a deal.

I don't have a beef with you...someone else may, but that is their axe to grind not mine.....but I personally would hate it if someone backed out on a deal with me.

I suggested deterents. Whether people agree with them or not, it doesn't matter because they are only suggestions.

If there are no consequences you could legitimately have an epidemic of backed out deals, and that would suck for everyone.

Hawks_G · Guru

Sabres_Luke wrote:

In this case it's easy to tell that that ATL backed out; however, in most instances the team doesnt go ahead and post on the board and then back out. THere is no way to fine the offense because in most situations its an msn "deal", and

"Luca says: (3:00:47 PM)
Deal. Send it in"

Is hardly concrete proof in the court of law..er BRHL2

Exactly why it is hard to enforce.......and while there may be no solution, we should seek one, even if it never comes.

Sens · Guru

This is probably what is bugging me the most right now, that GM's would back out of a deal they obviously agreed to and nothing can be done about it as it becomes a he said/he said debate with no real solid way to prove if a deal was made.

I would love for there to be a punishment or to make the original deal take place but I don't see how it could work.

Hawks_G wrote:

Sabres_Luke wrote:

In this case it's easy to tell that that ATL backed out; however, in most instances the team doesnt go ahead and post on the board and then back out. THere is no way to fine the offense because in most situations its an msn "deal", and

"Luca says: (3:00:47 PM)
Deal. Send it in"

Is hardly concrete proof in the court of law..er BRHL2

Exactly why it is hard to enforce.......and while there may be no solution, we should seek one, even if it never comes.

HOTLANTA · Guru

This isn't the place to defend yourself please stay away from specifics or the thread will be closed.

-- Edited by Moderator at 17:38, 2007-09-25